Mrmerlin

OK lets take a break here,

if you remove the damper from wherever it is ,
you will have the crank at 45deg BTDC when the key way is pointing at the 3 O clock position,
This while your facing the engine,

this is the time to remove the belt and turn the cams to 4 teeth before the marks line up,
then install the belt.

When the crank damper keyway is at 4 O clock then the crank is at TDC for #1

fbarnhill

Bless you Stan. And, thank you John. You both hit the nail on the head with the diagnostic and the logical side of my brain was telling me the same thing. Well, while I was trying to sleep last night, it dawned on me that the valves won't be bent as I set the timing with the engine on the stand. I turned the engine twice after every adjustment and if the valves had been hit, I would have felt it.

My problem was that I was so certain I couldn't have done this, that I didn't even look. I was gobSmacked when I saw that I had.

Thanks to both of you.

Don Carter

Frank, is this the Houston car that had bent valves when you got it a few years ago? Hope it works out well after the damper flip. I have have installed that backwards myself, but caught the mistake before completing the job. It's easy to do.

WallyP

Glad you found the problem.

Flipping the damper to the correct side won't change the actual timing. Since you haven't bent any valves so far, just flip the damper, turn the crank to the 45 BTDC position (check the cams to make sure that you are on the correct revolution), and retime the cams, then TDC and set them precisely.

The hardest part will be the crank bolt...

fbarnhill

Don, Yes, this is the same car. I have spent a ton of $$$ and time on her and this is my second rebuild. The first time, I didn't send the heads out to be re-done and she smoked. That led me to believe the valve seals were bad. This time, I pulled the engine to just do the heads. I was just admiring the beautiful cylinder walls. I turned the crank to admire the others and saw a huge gouge in #6. That gouge was 1" wide, 3/16" deep and about 3" long up and down the wall. Long story short, she broke an oil ring. The thin one on the bottom of the piston. So, got a great block from an r-lister in VA, had the heads done and that is where we are.

I just can't tell you how great the car ran before I pulled the engine. Blowing oil like crazy out the cam covers as some of the lower cam cover bolts on the lower side had broken.

So, she should be awesome. The heads needed very little from the machine shop and I spend a "few" hours porting and polishing the exhaust ports..

How did your rescue project work out?

fbarnhill

Thank you Wally. I am just trying to figure out a way to catch the new anti-freeze and not waste it. Also, is this job possible without removing the cam covers?.

Thanks again,

nc_growler

Frank!

Just saw this thread. Man, I wish I had known you were this close to getting things going!

And wishing I had a spare weekend to come down and be an extra set of hands and eyes on this project. This is a crazy time at work and home.

Sounds like one detail got away from you this time. So glad to hear nothing "awful" has happened.

Keep after it man. Pace yourself.

AO

Hi Frank,

You shouldn't have to remove the cam covers. But you do need to remove the cam gear covers. You don't have to take the timing belt completely off... just set the crank to 45, then slip off passenger side, then slip off driver side. Adjust driver side cam 4 teeth before the mark, replace belt, adjust pass side to 4-teeth before mark, replace belt. Spin once to ensure all line up at TDC. re-tension. May want to re-check timing with 32Vr-thingy from PorKen. Done.

I don't think you have to drain the coolant (but it is easier without the upper rad hose in the way).

fbarnhill

Thanks guys, I got her started. That was the no start problem. Now I have other issues. She is nocking lick hell, like the oil pump is not working. I still need to further troubleshooting. I did notice a gas smell from the dipstick so, I am thinking it got so flooded when the timing was off that it got to the oil.... And that thinned the viscosity to the point where the oil is just not working?????

Don Carter

Frank,

If it's been sitting a while, lifter noise is very common. My 87 has lifter noise when it hasn't been run for as little as 2-3 weeks. It will usually go away on it's own, if not, you can try the Mystery Oil fix.

soontobered84

Glad you got it started again, Frank.

Does your gauge show oil pressure? If it does, that lifter noise will probably go away on it's own. It takes some lifters longer to get pumped up for some reason.

Mrmerlin

Frank give me a call,
lets discuss this before you turn the key

dr bob

Fuel in the oil is noticeable by its particular fragrance. If at all in doubt, swap in new oil. It's way to cheap even if just for peace of mind. Filter too, of course.

---
For others following along--

Stan's advice on how and where to swap the damper back is spot-on. The engine must be at (any) 45º position before you can freely move the cams and not risk valve-to-piston interference. The keyway at 3 o'clock poition gets you where you can use the 45º marks on the cam gears to index them before sliding the belt back on, so it's certainly the best 45º position to use. Leave the belt on as you rotate the crank; If there was no interference before with the balancer on backwards, there won't be any now as you rotate it by hand to the 3 o'clock spot. At worst you won't do any more damage than has already been done to the valves.

----

Funny noises--

As others mention, it can take a little while getting the lifters pumped up after they've been sitting a while. Lifter noise is all in your head(s) though. If you have unidentifiable noises like ticking/knocking/slapping, use your mechanic's stethoscope to find the source as quickly as possible. Rod and main bearing noises are pretty low in the block, and 'ring' from the girdle just above the oil sump. Piston slap happens in the cylinder walls, only under load unless the pistons were very poorly fitted, so listen higher up but still well below the heads.

RFJ

Hello Frank, do not feel bad i did the same thing with my 85 euro and could not believe it,had to hit myself several times to to get myself straight. And i bet there are many others who have done the same. I would not feel to bad. Best,Ray