FatBoy

Are there still places to buy r-12 or should I convert the 87's AC to r-134 ?

It ran out of refrig back in late 2012 but the car was garage kept most of 2013 and then I began relocated to SW FL ......Back in the Poconos we had 2 seasons ... 4th of July & Winter ....so it was no biggie the few times I drove the '87.

Now that the car is in Florida I have to source r-12 or convert it to r-134. Not sure what will work best in the land of endless summer.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Tom

Darien

Roger has cans...

Godzilla83s

Only place you will find R-12 is on the secondary market. No retail outlet will sell it to you unless you have the EPA certification to buy it.
There are usually cans on ebay but they will be pricey. It hasn't been made in a decade or more IIRC.
I have 5 cans of R-12 to get my 928 AC back up and running, but if I didn't I would do the conversion.

outbackgeorgia

My 87 S4 converted easily to R134. The most difficult part was replacing ALL of the "O" rings (13 I believe) The most difficult was the Fuel Cooler.
Just do it, it cools just fine, ignore all the naysayers, but replace all the "O"rings. I do have a EPA certification, but R12 is just a hassle when one can buy R134 anywhere in the US.

SeanR

This summer I think I bought my last 90lbs of R-12 that I will buy to use on customers cars. It's not worth the hassle of spending hours finding it, getting it and then dealing with the cost when charging people. It's just going up. I think when I'm out of the current stock i'm going to go 100% R-134a and stock up on it while it's cheap.

andyww

You can buy it off of Ebay.

docmirror

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LT Texan

I rebuilt my hoses using barrier hose and upgraded the o-rings.

And then filled it full of Freon.

Never looked back.

Have never had to top it off in 6 years.......

hacker-pschorr

A few months ago my neighbor introduced me to a friend of his in the HVAC business, he works for a local shop, and said he likes doing side cash jobs.

As luck would have it, our rental's A/C went out, so I gave him a call. This led to a conversation about the units being 15 years old using an old style of freon, we should think about upgrading.

Anyway, this caused me to make some comment about a shortage of r-12 for our cars.....to which he said:

"I recently found an X pound (I don't remember the size, it was a big one, not a single can) canister of r-12 in the back of the barn. Sold it for a few hundred bucks, too bad I didn't know you needed some"

upstate bob

I have the certification (20 years HVAC) but have never bothered to recharge my flat system which was that way when I bought it. I would seriously consider buying this: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147027

ROG100

I have plenty of R12 - no shortage what so ever. Contrary to what has been said it is still being made South of the border.

jcorenman

That's propane. If you are feeling lucky then sure, it makes a great refrigerant. And what could possibly go wrong with two or three pounds of hot, hi-pressure propane?

Are you feeling lucky?

hacker-pschorr

http://www.allpar.com/eek/ac.html

dr bob

So the "ban" on R-12 extends only to the countries that signed on to the "Montreal Accord" treaty way back when. As Roger says, it's being sold in other countries, including Mexico. It's still legal to "smuggle" it back across the border installed in your refrigeration system, but it's a no-no to bring cylinders or even the little cannisters across. I wish there was some legal tolerance/allowance like there is for alcoholic beverages coming back in. Buying it in Mexico is as easy as walking into a store and paying for it, although the mainstreet stores have it marked up to the same prices you pay on ebay. The cylinders available there are labeled in English and Spanish, so the target markets are covered.

To the OP's question, regardless of what refrigerant you are going to use, you'll want to fix all the leaks in your system, and replace the drier. Amazingly, it's the same process regardless of what you plan to put in for refrigerant after that work. All the O-rings, rebuild the hoses, etc. New expansion valves and the drier complete the work. Flush the system to get the dirty/wet oil out, and you can easily go with either R-12 or R-134a and the appropriate oil for that refrigerant. Tough choice: harder-to-buy or get-it-anywhere?

I still have a couple sealed cylinders of real DuPont R-12, although there are no longer any R-12 cars anywhere within even the extended family's fleet. It will either be worth $$$ someday, or be part of the EPA Superfund clean-up effort in my garage after I'm gone.

hacker-pschorr

Conspiracy theory time, put on your tin foil hat...

R-12 banned because it eats away at the ozone layer
R-134 is being banned around the world since it causes cancer and does other nasty stuff to the environment
One replacement for R-134 is CO2......wait, isn't that what's causing global warming?? These systems are also under extreme pressure compared to R-12.

Meanwhile....some claim....these changes all coincided with DuPonts patents expiring on R12 then R134 and they have new patents for the refrigerants being tested / introduced.

I read it on the interweb tubes so it must be true.