taylorgw

Guys,

First I will say complete rookie here, so if this post gets messed up I'll apologize in advance. I have been reading / lurking here for a few months and am constantly impressed with how willing to everybody is willing to share their knowledge.

I have been looking into buying a 928 for a while, reading many threads in this forum. There is a Euro 1980 928S for sale close to where I live (Dartmouth, Nova Scotia) ... ask was $5,800.

VIN 92A0821231

It has 105,000 km (65,000 miles); auto; 4.7 litre and appears to have original paint. A/C, sunroof, dash looks good (no cracks) and phone dial rims are included with car. All good things, but there are a few warts.

The biggest concern I have is the car was last driven on the road in 2001/2002 (based on expired plates and provincial safety inspection sticker on the car). I was told it has been stored inside for the past 12/13 years, and at one point a squirrel got in the car and chewed up some of the interior panels around the seatbelts (at least that is what I was told).

The driver side seat side bolsters look good, so I think the 105,000 km is a real odometer reading.

When I went to look at the car the fuel pump was out, and "lost". According to the guy selling it, a new fuel pump was (or was about to be) ordered.

Checked in with the seller today (about 6 weeks after initial viewing) and he offered it up at $4K "as is".

So my question is ... based on the experience of the folks here - just how much of a dice roll is a non-starting car at $4,000 (or at any price)?

I am not a mechanic but in my younger days was into cars (late 70's / early 80's), so am not scared of many things mechanical - but starting with a non running car is a concern given the seeming complexity and age of the car.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

Greg

Dean_Fuller

Greg,
For a non runner at that price...I would look elsewhere. You can find a nice early runner for that money. Just keep your eyes open.

If you were closer I would let you look at a solid 79 Euro 5 speed I have that runs good for $3500.

docmirror

First question. Do you WANT an 80 Euro with auto trans? If you want it, then there's a few things you can do to minimize the risk. If you don't want it, and your budget will support a bit more, keep looking.

If you are ok with this car, but worried about running, here's a quick test for a novice to see what you can see with the engine. Get a decent battery that will fit in the well, and a can of plain old carb cleaner from any Walmart(or auto parts store). Clean the battery cables on the car, install the battery, tighten the cable bolts. Turn the key on, and check the inst panel lights. Now, start checking things like ext lights, horn, wipers, int lamps, radio, blower, etc. Anything that is electrical except the AC can be tested. Make notes on what doesn't work, cuz some of it won't work.

Next, take off the long intake tubes on the side of the engine, and remove the air cleaner cover along the back. Be careful, I think you will find a bunch of nuts and shells are going to be in the air cleaner housing, and maybe the intake tubes. Leave the air cleaner element on for now. If you find nuts and shells clean them off the intake area.

In the engine bay, look straight down the small round holes where the belt covers are(you just took the intake tubes off those round holes, and look for the timing belt on the pulleys. See that the timing belt is running near the middle of the pulleys and that it's in decent shape, not frayed, and no missing teeth from what you can see.

Now crank the engine over just a bit. A few revolutions and listen for any grinding or weird noises. If you don't hear any weird noises, remove the air filter element and check the lower intake housing well for nuts or shells. Clean that all out as well as you can, a vacuum works well here. Look down the small round holes in the timing covers again, and recheck the belt. Pull the oil dipstick and check the oil level.

If everything so far is ok, sit in the drivers seat, and ask the seller to spray carb cleaner right into the intake well as you crank the engine over. It should fire up and run as long as he keeps spraying carb cleaner into the intake well. You will need to modulate the throttle to keep it running. As it runs, check the oil pressure gauge, tach and if you have time, check the voltmeter rises slightly when running. Don't run for long, only 10-15 seconds or so. Stop spraying and shut off the engine. Put things back together and decide if it's what you want. Press the brake pedal hard, and see if it goes to the floor. No way to test the trans until the car is running so that's always going to be a risk.

<edit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Porsche...p2054897.l4275 no affiliaiton, but here's what you can get prolly under $5k not too far away. A non-running 928 doesn't demand much money.>

The Forgotten On

That car's engine bay is so original it has the old paper intake tubes .

You really need to decide if you want a project like this one or a running, driving car that needs some work.

$ plays a huge role in deciding which car is best, the more you put in the initial purchase price in buying a well sorted car the less you will pay in the long run.

Randy V

First off, welcome to the forum, Greg.

Next - if $4K seems like a stretch to your budget then the 928 is not the car for you.

There is no such thing as a good cheap 928.

If you are serious about a 928, increase your budget by at least 2X then start looking for something you can drive and be proud to own the moment you pay the money.

This one is not that 928.

erioshi

I feel that I slightly overpaid for my car at $1,600 USD for a non-running '79 Euro 5-speed. I bought the car about two months ago, and the seller had been trying to sell it for about a month at $2,000 USD on craigslist. The car has interior needs like the car you are looking at, and was (and still is) non-running with a bad fuel pump, along with having badly faded paint.

I made my decision to purchase based on the car being local, appearing to have an honest 38k miles and being almost entirely rust free. It is also an early style body without side moldings (my preference), a manual transmission car, and has some other details I prefer.

As a point of reference, I expect to be another $500 to $1,500 USD into the car by the time I sort out the fuel system (pump & tank screen), replace the 35 year old rubber fuel lines, take care of a small radiator issue, and generally resolve a few other details that will need attention on a car that has been sitting for years. That will not cover any paint, interior repair, carpets or any other significant mechanical repairs.

Bringing a 928 back from the dead can become expensive very quickly in just parts, and exponentially so if you need to hire expert help along the way. I know my car will probably never repay me financially for the work I am putting into it. For me this is a hobby, and I enjoy the challenge of bringing a car back from near death, and giving it a new life.

For the money your seller is asking, I could have had my choice of much better running and driving cars, as long as I was willing to travel to pick one up. Some careful searching of online classifieds, a few emails, and a weekend trip could probably net you a much better car for the money. If you do go that route, I would strongly consider having the car transported or picking it up with a trailer.

curtisr

The body looks quite nice; however, I'm with the others regarding the price. $4k might just be the beginning. For what it's worth, I bought an 82 for $2750, drove it home and have enjoyed it ever since. Sure, I had some work to do for the safety but it was all simple stuff (seat was missing a bolt, the mirror required new glue, tighten a wheel-bearing and the like). Agreed, these are a more common sight in Ontario

I would ask the owner to install the pump and get it running. If you're worried about him reverting to the original asking price--don't. This car isn't for those who are looking for a low-maintenance-anyone-can-fix-it kind of car. Besides, you can find these at reasonable prices in Montreal.

tmpusfugit

As others have suggested the asking price is far too high for a non running car. Of the non running cars sold over the last xx years they all had "bad fuel pumps" if we are to entirely believe the sellers. Either the fuel pumps were the most unreliable design ever or a "bad fuel pump" is a ready excuse for not running that may conceal far worse real problems, or maybe not, you never know until too late. I have bought 3 non runners, and '82 and 2 '84's. The '82 5 speed I paid $700 for, and believe me it was far too much....it was that bad when I really got into it....the '84's, I paid $2000 for the first, owner said "bad fuel pump" when in fact it had a broken timing belt and a hundred electrical gremlins. The other non runner '84 I paid $2400 for it, the owner had a bit over $18,000 in it in new parts, paint, new interior, new shocks new springs new TT, new valve body in transmission, etc. and mechanics bills when he gave up. I put in motor mounts, WP/TB, replaced 4 brake rotors, repaired a lot of electrical issues, fixed/repaired/tightened all the stuff his mechanic had done and was on the road with a decent car for about $5000 and a whole bunch of my time and work. No points intended here other than to give you a better idea of what a so called bad fuel pump can really cost from my experiences....

M. Requin

The gauge faces are from SpeedHut, and the tach is a manual transmission tach, which 1) has a different RPM range, so if it has never been recalibrated it won't be anywhere near accurate, 2) unless the installer modified the face, you won't see the auto's PRND32 lights, which may or may not be important, and 3) I had exactly those faces on my auto and you cannot see the needles at night, unless the overall dash illumination has been modified. Just a small footnote.

bureau13

I'm a rookie too and don't yet have a car, but that price is (IMO) at least 2x what it should be for an old non-runner like that. Maybe more than 2x. If the owner is confident it's worth more then he'd likely have fixed the fuel pump already. However, if that particular car seems perfect for you, offer to hook up a fuel pump and see how it works. If he balks, you'll know he's hiding something. That being said, it's entirely possible he's NOT hiding anything, and that's all it really needed way back when it was running, but I would bet it needs quite a bit more TLC now.

Jerry Feather

If you get it running at the seller's place, even just with carb cleaner, the asking price or $4000 as is will be come pretty firm. However, If you gamble with an offer of about $2000 as is and don't try to get it running there you may have a shot at buying it for that. More than $2000 and I would walk away.

soltino

Is this a 300HP car or a very rare model?

tino

Keith Coe

Tmpusfugit, I'm just down the road in Decker Prairie. I don't know if I have met you before. Are you part of Don Carter's houston928s@googlegroups.com?

Wisconsin Joe

To add a bit to what others are saying - For $5800 you can get a well sorted early 80s car. They aren't worth a whole lot, except in perfect shape. They don't have the appeal of the first couple of years and don't have a whole lot of power. Autos are typically worth less than 5-speeds.

Keep in mind that this car has sat for 12 years. It's going to need an intake refresh (including fuel lines), Timing belt/water pump, and a whole lot of electrical cleaning/sorting. It's easily going to run $4k or more in parts alone. And won't be worth much over $6k when it's done.

And there is a very real possibility that the coolant has turned acidic and has eaten away the heads and the cylinder walls.

DocMirror posted a pretty solid inspection procedure. Following it will give you a good idea of what's going on.
Personally, I'd try to turn the motor over by hand. If it moves ok, then try to turn it with the starter motor. Pull the plugs and do a compression check. Perhaps put compressed air to the plug holes with the piston at TDC and see if the cylinder holds compression (a leak down test). If the motor has been eaten by acidic coolant, you won't see any compression and the leak down will just blow air out the overflow tank.

Even if the motor is salvageable, it's going to take a ton of work and money to get this one in shape. I wouldn't go above $1500 for it, and that's being somewhat generous.

jpitman2

Early autos (3 speed) did not have gear indicators in the dash. Not sure why the tacho would be differently calibrated for auto vs man?
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k