How much is a 1990 928 GT with 95,000 miles worth?
11-27-2013, 11:49 PM
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How much is a 1990 928 GT with 95,000 miles worth?
Hey guys
I'd be extremely grateful if you all could help me determine a ballpark figure for the value of a Black 1990 928 GT with 95,000 miles.
Condition wise:
Exterior Paint: 8
Interior: 8
Mechanical: 7.5
There are some issues with it:
Apparently, it was in an front collision accident at one time during it's life, that required them to use a piece of sheet metal from another 928 gt. From what I know, it was similar to an episode of Gas Monkey Garage where a Ferrari was restored. They through it up on a rack, and cut the messed up section out, and replace it with a part from a doner car.
That means airbags were deployed. MOMO Racing steering wheel put in replace of old wheel.
That all said - the car will drive perfectly straight for a mile if you let go of the wheel. The job was done well, and even the mechanic who I had work on it didn't realize anything happened to it until he went through it a second time.
Also, when rebuilding it, previous owner decided to put in steel engine mounts, racing suspension, aftermarket performance exhaust, and aftermarket wheels and rims.
Lastly - and this is what I think might hurt the value the most - is that at some point the previous owner decided to swap out the OEM computer (damaged during the accident it had) with a performance modified chip. Problem is, the new chip needs to be calibrated with the rest of the systems on the vehicle.
Right now the PSD and anti-lock breaks are disabled until they are calibrated with the new computer. Apparently it needs a bosch kts300 to do that, but very expensive and hard to find.
So now that you know all that -
If someone held a gun to your head and made you put a "fair for both parties" figure on it...
What would you say the car's value is TODAY... in the condition it's in...
And if I keep it in that condition over the next 10 years... how much do you estimate it would be worth in 2023?
Crazy questions... I know....
But I'd really appreciate anything you can spit out at me.
Thank you!!!!
I'd be extremely grateful if you all could help me determine a ballpark figure for the value of a Black 1990 928 GT with 95,000 miles.
Condition wise:
Exterior Paint: 8
Interior: 8
Mechanical: 7.5
There are some issues with it:
Apparently, it was in an front collision accident at one time during it's life, that required them to use a piece of sheet metal from another 928 gt. From what I know, it was similar to an episode of Gas Monkey Garage where a Ferrari was restored. They through it up on a rack, and cut the messed up section out, and replace it with a part from a doner car.
That means airbags were deployed. MOMO Racing steering wheel put in replace of old wheel.
That all said - the car will drive perfectly straight for a mile if you let go of the wheel. The job was done well, and even the mechanic who I had work on it didn't realize anything happened to it until he went through it a second time.
Also, when rebuilding it, previous owner decided to put in steel engine mounts, racing suspension, aftermarket performance exhaust, and aftermarket wheels and rims.
Lastly - and this is what I think might hurt the value the most - is that at some point the previous owner decided to swap out the OEM computer (damaged during the accident it had) with a performance modified chip. Problem is, the new chip needs to be calibrated with the rest of the systems on the vehicle.
Right now the PSD and anti-lock breaks are disabled until they are calibrated with the new computer. Apparently it needs a bosch kts300 to do that, but very expensive and hard to find.
So now that you know all that -
If someone held a gun to your head and made you put a "fair for both parties" figure on it...
What would you say the car's value is TODAY... in the condition it's in...
And if I keep it in that condition over the next 10 years... how much do you estimate it would be worth in 2023?
Crazy questions... I know....
But I'd really appreciate anything you can spit out at me.
Thank you!!!!
11-28-2013, 12:02 AM
#2
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Firstly, the computer chips that can be swapped are eproms that fit in a holder.......not a big deal to replace and I'd suggest get OEMs to start...........not sure why they were replaced to begin with unless there was major electrical issues that fried the computers such as reversing the battery connections!
For me the biggest concern would be the extent of the crash damage and how it affected the frame.
Given what you stated so far, its straight, sight unseen, $9k tops and that's if they can prove ALL maintenance is completed including the timing belt/water pump and all related components.
For me the biggest concern would be the extent of the crash damage and how it affected the frame.
Given what you stated so far, its straight, sight unseen, $9k tops and that's if they can prove ALL maintenance is completed including the timing belt/water pump and all related components.
11-28-2013, 12:21 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Either someone is feeding you a line with a hook and a sinker attached or doesn't know the first thing about 928's.
First off, if they swapped out the "OEM computer with a performance modified chip" did they replace the EEPROMS in both engine "computers"? There are separate ECU's for the fuel injection system and the ignition system and each has it's own replaceable EEPROM. The only "calibration" that would be required would be to give the ECU's a chance to learn where to keep the idle. This "Adaption" process can be done with the Bosch KTS300 in about 10 minutes, or you can just drive the car for a couple of days and the ECU's will learn all they need to make a smooth idle.
Second, neither of those computers has anything to do with the ABS system or PSD system or the separate, combined ECU that manages those two mutually dependent and integrated systems. There is no "calibration" via the KTS300 for either system that I'm aware of and nothing is indicated in the factory service manual.
Unless the crash damage was repaired by one of about 3 shops in the US that have/had the proper factory tooling to ensure the correct chassis geometry was restored I'd be VERY suspicious of the quality and integrity of the repair.
With the figurative "gun to my head" I might offer $5K if it ran REALLY well as that is about what you could get for a decent used engine and the 5 speed trans. You might get few more $$ if you opened the engine and verified that the GT internals are still all there (cams, etc.) and the engine is sound (no thrust bearing issues, clean cylinders, etc.) Beyond that there isn't much face value. The "race suspension" may or may not be of any value depending on quality, level of installation care and ongoing maintenance (solid joint suspensions require much more care that a typical sports car suspension.)
Finally, there is no telling how much additional stuff is broken due to the solid engine mounts. Fine for a full race vehicle but a bad idea for a street car.
Hope this helps.
Mike
First off, if they swapped out the "OEM computer with a performance modified chip" did they replace the EEPROMS in both engine "computers"? There are separate ECU's for the fuel injection system and the ignition system and each has it's own replaceable EEPROM. The only "calibration" that would be required would be to give the ECU's a chance to learn where to keep the idle. This "Adaption" process can be done with the Bosch KTS300 in about 10 minutes, or you can just drive the car for a couple of days and the ECU's will learn all they need to make a smooth idle.
Second, neither of those computers has anything to do with the ABS system or PSD system or the separate, combined ECU that manages those two mutually dependent and integrated systems. There is no "calibration" via the KTS300 for either system that I'm aware of and nothing is indicated in the factory service manual.
Unless the crash damage was repaired by one of about 3 shops in the US that have/had the proper factory tooling to ensure the correct chassis geometry was restored I'd be VERY suspicious of the quality and integrity of the repair.
With the figurative "gun to my head" I might offer $5K if it ran REALLY well as that is about what you could get for a decent used engine and the 5 speed trans. You might get few more $$ if you opened the engine and verified that the GT internals are still all there (cams, etc.) and the engine is sound (no thrust bearing issues, clean cylinders, etc.) Beyond that there isn't much face value. The "race suspension" may or may not be of any value depending on quality, level of installation care and ongoing maintenance (solid joint suspensions require much more care that a typical sports car suspension.)
Finally, there is no telling how much additional stuff is broken due to the solid engine mounts. Fine for a full race vehicle but a bad idea for a street car.
Hope this helps.
Mike
11-28-2013, 12:38 AM
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Run away.
Unless you are close to someone that really knows 928s and can get that person to go through it stem to stern.
Unless you are close to someone that really knows 928s and can get that person to go through it stem to stern.
Last edited by worf928; 11-28-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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11-28-2013, 01:26 AM
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11-28-2013, 01:28 AM
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11-28-2013, 01:38 AM
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Any pics showing paint and interior? Does it have a salvage title? Mechanical is all easy stuff. But if it has a salvage title and needs paint and/or interior, it's a prts car.
In which case, how much for the transmission?
In which case, how much for the transmission?
11-28-2013, 01:52 AM
#11
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Dan, this is this your car, right?
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-question.html
The car has a checkered past, but with some care that can be largely put behind you if you want. It will never be 100% but can be a terrific driver.
The PSD/ABS issue goes back a ways. Did you ever find out if it still has a PSD tranny? If not, that would explain the PSD warning. The ABS warning is likely a wheel sensor issue, or maybe wring when the front end was rebuilt. Mason was not big on sweating the details.
If you want to keep the car, there are lots of folks here who know these cars well. And quite a few that are particularly fond of 90 GT's. And if you want to sell it, then you will need to sort out the codes, and make sure everything works.
Cheers, Jim
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-question.html
The car has a checkered past, but with some care that can be largely put behind you if you want. It will never be 100% but can be a terrific driver.
The PSD/ABS issue goes back a ways. Did you ever find out if it still has a PSD tranny? If not, that would explain the PSD warning. The ABS warning is likely a wheel sensor issue, or maybe wring when the front end was rebuilt. Mason was not big on sweating the details.
If you want to keep the car, there are lots of folks here who know these cars well. And quite a few that are particularly fond of 90 GT's. And if you want to sell it, then you will need to sort out the codes, and make sure everything works.
Cheers, Jim
11-28-2013, 02:30 AM
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Thanks for all your time guys. This is a huge help!
@jcorenman
Yeah, I actually was able to check that. It has all the PSD stuff there that I was told to check for.
@Rob Edwards
Paint is all good except for some small chip dings on the hood here and there. There is a small weird looking web crack on the paint under the back right break light. I'd say a 2x2 very feint cracks. Only part on the car I've seen like that. Overall paint is in good condition. I'd say fair is 8.
Interior back right quarterpanel has a 1 1/2 inch gash in it. Also, it needs a new passenger airbag cover. Carpeting up front under driver and passenger side is coming up a bit, might need a little work there.
There are no marks on the carfax. Everything is clean on it.
Going to try and take some pics tomorrow.
@jcorenman
Yeah, I actually was able to check that. It has all the PSD stuff there that I was told to check for.
@Rob Edwards
Paint is all good except for some small chip dings on the hood here and there. There is a small weird looking web crack on the paint under the back right break light. I'd say a 2x2 very feint cracks. Only part on the car I've seen like that. Overall paint is in good condition. I'd say fair is 8.
Interior back right quarterpanel has a 1 1/2 inch gash in it. Also, it needs a new passenger airbag cover. Carpeting up front under driver and passenger side is coming up a bit, might need a little work there.
There are no marks on the carfax. Everything is clean on it.
Going to try and take some pics tomorrow.
11-28-2013, 02:40 AM
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Also @Rob Edwards and all
Yeah the ABS warning is definitely just a warning. ABS are definitely enabled I've tested them plenty of times.
I know for sure PSD is disabled though. Wheels spin like mad in first gear if I give it a bit too much gas.
Yeah the ABS warning is definitely just a warning. ABS are definitely enabled I've tested them plenty of times.
I know for sure PSD is disabled though. Wheels spin like mad in first gear if I give it a bit too much gas.
11-28-2013, 04:58 AM
#14
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I don't think the value of the car is as dire as $5k, but we need more info.
Did you ever get a wheel alignment done? (e.g. on a hunter laser machine). If so, were the techs able to get it in spec?
A regular front-hit GT that has been well repaired and has good title should be worth $10k+ IMO.
The PSD fault will bring it down, as will the usual slew of other faults (AC, electricals, interior etc.).
Assuming you checked the numbers on the back bottom edge of the tranny and its definitely a 90GT tranny, then the PSD warning is likely to be a pump failure or clogged due to ancient fluid - have you ever tried to flush the PSD with clean brake fluid?
Did you ever get a wheel alignment done? (e.g. on a hunter laser machine). If so, were the techs able to get it in spec?
A regular front-hit GT that has been well repaired and has good title should be worth $10k+ IMO.
The PSD fault will bring it down, as will the usual slew of other faults (AC, electricals, interior etc.).
Assuming you checked the numbers on the back bottom edge of the tranny and its definitely a 90GT tranny, then the PSD warning is likely to be a pump failure or clogged due to ancient fluid - have you ever tried to flush the PSD with clean brake fluid?
11-28-2013, 11:03 AM
#15
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I'm quite sure I've ridden in this car several times at various race tracks. The owner I knew (at least as far back as 2000) was a PCA Drivers Ed instructor from Maine, and took good care of the car. It was a nice example UNTIL it bounced around between the Armco barriers on the climbing esses at Watkins Glen several years ago. Pretty badly damaged, and he sold it to the '928 dismantler par excellance' in north Philadelphia who TRIED to establish a business based on really cheap used 928 parts (that were usually worth less than buyers paid for them).
Lasted about 18 months as the 'dealer', and he did the 'reconstruction' as I recall. I would not be comfortable riding in this car. Just my opinion. For parts - probably take a flier at about the value posted previously - but I'm really not interested as captearlg and I have parted out 3 928's, and don't plan to do another one.
Gary Knox
928 Owners Club charter member and current Treasurer
Lasted about 18 months as the 'dealer', and he did the 'reconstruction' as I recall. I would not be comfortable riding in this car. Just my opinion. For parts - probably take a flier at about the value posted previously - but I'm really not interested as captearlg and I have parted out 3 928's, and don't plan to do another one.
Gary Knox
928 Owners Club charter member and current Treasurer