For those with pan spacers and mini starters: remove stock starter mount?
08-27-2013, 06:03 PM
#31
So I clocked the mini-starter and it should work IF I make a relief groove in the oil pan to allow for the upper starter bolt. Even allows use of the factory clutch hard line bracket.
I think the starter will now be the new alternator in terms of lowest item underneath...
I think the starter will now be the new alternator in terms of lowest item underneath...
08-27-2013, 06:42 PM
#34
Archive Gatekeeper
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No need for a cork or neoprene gasket between either spacer-girdle or spacer-pan, just the black Mercedes goo.
Dunno whether Drei-Bond would also work in this setting (?)
Dunno whether Drei-Bond would also work in this setting (?)
08-27-2013, 06:44 PM
#36
I was a big fan of Hondabond when I worked at a Saab-Honda dealer. This car is together with cork though, so we'll leave it and see how it does. Using sealer instead of cork gaskets might have given us the additional clearance for the upper starter bolt but it would still be close.
08-27-2013, 08:02 PM
#37
That steel line is a bear.... In plan to get Greg's improved flex line when I do my clutch master/slave in the coming weeks. Right now the hard line goes in that "weeee little space" just above the top mounting bolt for the starter. Not ideal
08-27-2013, 08:12 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Seems like Carl should know what is required to make his own parts fit.....but either way, you've got some serious work/rework ahead of you, to make this work. For example: If the oil pick-up is properly located for use with the cork gaskets, it is going to be way too low when you eliminate the gaskets.....this will need to be redone. The oil pick-up, without the gaskets, should be way too close to the bottom of the pan and "impede" the oil flow to said pick-up. Impossible to have it both ways....either the pick-up is too far away, right now...or it is going to be too close. without the gaskets.....it's a 1/4" of difference in dimension, with a pick-up that needs to be located within a few thousanths of an inch, to work properly.
There's a general and valid point that if something is sold as a kit, the kit should be complete and come with instructions and the car should be drivable afterwards (with no push start needed). Otherwise it's not a kit, it's just a bunch of parts.
08-27-2013, 08:22 PM
#39
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Here's a shot of GB's uber clutch slave flex line.
And a lousy shot of it in situ, with the mini IMI starter. (Look Ma, no pan gaskets....)
And a lousy shot of it in situ, with the mini IMI starter. (Look Ma, no pan gaskets....)
08-27-2013, 08:51 PM
#40
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Actually that slave hose is the old style, too. Here's the new routing:
08-27-2013, 08:55 PM
#41
Seems like Carl should know what is required to make his own parts fit.....but either way, you've got some serious work/rework ahead of you, to make this work. For example: If the oil pick-up is properly located for use with the cork gaskets, it is going to be way too low when you eliminate the gaskets.....this will need to be redone. The oil pick-up, without the gaskets, should be way too close to the bottom of the pan and "impede" the oil flow to said pick-up. Impossible to have it both ways....either the pick-up is too far away, right now...or it is going to be too close. without the gaskets.....it's a 1/4" of difference in dimension, with a pick-up that needs to be located within a few thousanths of an inch, to work properly.
I can help some.....When you figure out that there is no possible way that steel line is going to fit between the oil pan and the starter motor (and get the upper bolt in) I make a one piece flexible hydraulic line that goes around the front of the starter....virtually a "must" with a pan spacer. Replaces the flexible hose and the steel line. Made from "uber" hose with a lifetime guarantee (as long as you don't cook it, with the exhaust.) $160.00...for the entire line kit.
My complete pan spacer kit, with windage trays, starter motor, oil pump pick-up spacers, and hardware to make everything fit (includes this line, too) is $995, if you get tired of playing "How do I make this fit"?
08-27-2013, 09:15 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
I can help some.....When you figure out that there is no possible way that steel line is going to fit between the oil pan and the starter motor (and get the upper bolt in) I make a one piece flexible hydraulic line that goes around the front of the starter....virtually a "must" with a pan spacer. Replaces the flexible hose and the steel line. Made from "uber" hose with a lifetime guarantee (as long as you don't cook it, with the exhaust.) $160.00...for the entire line kit.
My complete pan spacer kit, with windage trays, starter motor, oil pump pick-up spacers, and hardware to make everything fit (includes this line, too) is $995, if you get tired of playing "How do I make this fit"?
My complete pan spacer kit, with windage trays, starter motor, oil pump pick-up spacers, and hardware to make everything fit (includes this line, too) is $995, if you get tired of playing "How do I make this fit"?
To be fair, though, your kit isn't "complete" Greg! I tried to buy it but I had to source my own oil pick up, cloverleaf, and screen. These were unobtanium in a month of looking. With the Glen approaching for me in October, and a general lack of spare time for wrenching sessions, I had to move on Carl's kit, simply for time reasons. And Carl has been helpful with this issue. I hope he continues to help until we get this resolved. Obviously it's in his best interests to make sure this all works out. As far as I can tell no one has installed his kit on an S4 5 speed.
08-27-2013, 09:44 PM
#44
The starter we are working with could be clocked one more notch to bring it tighter to the pan, but then it would hit the factory clutch line bracket (requiring its removal) and it would probably also prevent the hard line from going over the starter too. In other words...this is as tight to the pan as this starter is going to get (unless you eliminate the factory clutch hard line and bracket). I am just glad it is going to work with the factory iron starter bracket at all.
08-27-2013, 10:29 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fair enough Greg. 
I was under the impression that it was essential to have the early unobtanium bits when using the pan spacer, regardless of the purpose for which the car was to be used. Didn't seem like there was an option. As in the oiling system would malfunction if the oil pan was spaced without these retro updates. Oh well. Of course, based on Brian's real world experience with this, I'm probably better off with Carl's creation in there at least.
The starter remains a concern. I suppose that, if we get it to work at all, we will have to see how long it lasts before I bottom out and it gets ripped off. That would be exciting. Again, I assumed there was only 1 "mini starter" for our cars. I actually tried to get the one you recommended but never heard back from Roger. To be fair I emailed instead of called. He's better on phone calls than emails. Anyway, I saw that Carl sold one and assumed it was the same one. I need to stop assuming so much.
I was under the impression that it was essential to have the early unobtanium bits when using the pan spacer, regardless of the purpose for which the car was to be used. Didn't seem like there was an option. As in the oiling system would malfunction if the oil pan was spaced without these retro updates. Oh well. Of course, based on Brian's real world experience with this, I'm probably better off with Carl's creation in there at least. The starter remains a concern. I suppose that, if we get it to work at all, we will have to see how long it lasts before I bottom out and it gets ripped off. That would be exciting. Again, I assumed there was only 1 "mini starter" for our cars. I actually tried to get the one you recommended but never heard back from Roger. To be fair I emailed instead of called. He's better on phone calls than emails. Anyway, I saw that Carl sold one and assumed it was the same one. I need to stop assuming so much.