Chris33ad

Rescue #3 is an 85 car with auto trans. Starter barely turns over....neg and pos cables at battery get real hot too. I put a brand new neg ground cable on in hatch area. No luck.

I went to the 14 pin and ran a wire from the big yellow starter wire to the pos battery jump post....same thing....barely turns. RRRRRR....RRRRRR.....RRRRRR.

Pulled starter and took it to advanced auto for testing. Works great. Hafta re-install it now. What next?

I checked out the engine to chassis ground and it was real greasy. The whole length of it has heavy grime. Could that ground directly affect the starter or should I be looking elsewhere???? It was tight and the connections didn't look too bad.

help....??????

John Speake

Have you tried turning over the engine by hand ?

danglerb

Make sure the battery is good and fully charged.
Clean the battery terminals, and all the connections.

Try again.

Bad engine ground strap could be an issue, but not sure if it would effect cranking.

Use a meter and check some voltages including while somebody cranks the motor. At the battery terminals, at the jump post, if no hints yet at the starter.

Its a very simple circuit, battery plus to cable, cable to starter, starter body to engine, engine to chassis, chassis to battery neg. Unless the engine is stuck, TBF, or something.

WallyP

Anywhere there is heat, there is a problem. Heat is caused by current passing thru resistance. If there is heat, there is resistance. Poor connection, poor quality cables, corrosion, etc. The main battery cables should be able to carry enough current to fry the starter without getting hot...

Look for heat.

Chris33ad

I've already cleaned battery terminals and put on a brand new heavy duty ground strap in trunk. battery is new and charged and the 2nd one I've tried. Both good.

Mrmerlin

jack up the car remove the lower bell housing and release the front driveshaft pinch bolt ,
torque the rear bolt to 66 ft/lbs add a drop of blue loctite then retorque the front bolt
these 84/85 /86 engines can also become victims of the thrust bearing failure.

A quick way to see if you have issues
remove the dipstick
dab onto black cardoard
look at the oil in the sun with a magnifying glass

tmpusfugit

As John suggests turning over the engine by hand may provide some clues. I have read from others that TBF is not likely in earlier cars, not so certain that has ever been proved. If the battery, wiring, and starter have all tested good, all that is left is mechanical drag...and that symptom leads the TBF symptoms.

Some more history on the car would be useful, has the flex plate been checked for deflection? End play on the crankshaft? Is the car new to the OP? was it running well in the very recent past? Is there any water in the oil or for that matter is there any oil in the water?

Chris33ad

The car ran really good 2 weeks ago. 79K miles...the retired guy that owned it knew nothing about it. Is the TBF timing belt failure????? Sheesh...I hope not. Doesn't that mean the motor would be destroyed???

It was experiencing starting "drag" and I was starting to suspect a bad draw on the starter but advance auto guy tested it right before my eyes and it worked great.

Chris33ad

I'll take a look at the water/oil thing.....

Mrmerlin

FWIW I have found the flexplate preloaded on my 84 Euro and my 86 .5 ,
so yes the early cars can also suffer from Thrust bearing failure.

Also to note both of these cars had the rear pinchbolt loose

Wisconsin Joe

TBF = Thrust Bearing Failure.

That's why MrMerlin suggested looking for bits of metal in the oil.

Can you put a socket on the crank bolt and turn the engine by hand? If so, how hard does it turn?

The fact that you are heating up the battery connections suggests that either there is a lot of resistance there (meaning not a lot of power getting to the starter) or that the starter is drawing a lot of current, because the engine has a lot of friction.

Perhaps hook up the starter without installing it. Either that or put a meter on it while it's cranking to see how much voltage is getting there under load.

Kiln_Red

+1

The S2 and S3 cars can absolutely fail to TBF (Thrust Bearing Failure).. I have seen it on more than one occasion. Follow these instructions to rule out the worst case scenario. You will need a micrometer if you don't have one already. I don't know if the wear tolerance is different for your MY vs. MY88. You may want to compare notes on that if you have access to the WSM.

tmpusfugit

I had a preload on my '84 when I got it. No signs of TBF, I loosened the clamp, checked crank end play, added a Constantine clamp and used some white paint on the joint and plan to include an inspection every year to make certain it doesn't move. First check showed no movement. I have not carefully inspected the rear pinch bolt but will do so the next time it is on the lift.

By the way, I have had alternators and starters declared good in testing at one of the local parts houses, they were later proved to be defective. I have also had the opposite happen...just suggesting that testing on the bench is not always equal to real life use. So, if there is no preload on the spring plate, crankshaft end play is in spec, and there is no sign of metal in the oil...it still could be a bad starter or bad wiring/connections.......by the way, I have been in a couple of TBF engines and both passed the metal in oil flake test...so that is not always a good indicator either....there was plenty of metal in the pan, just didn't show in the oil on the dipstick or in the oil drained out either. It had settled into the sludge in the bottom of the pan and stayed there.

Chris33ad

It's pouring rain here today and the car is outside. I'll have to try hand turning the motor when the rain stops. Any idea what size socket that takes? I'll be looking for hard manual cranking, right?

I'm starting to wonder IF it IS the starter. The prev owner was really cranking hard on this thing trying to get it going and he had a battery charger on it too.

So the engine to chassis ground was really grimey...wondering if that could be playing a role here. I'm going to the store to get a new one tonight. It was tight with a little rust/flaking but the cable itself was just coated with grime uniformly. Someone told me that grime could be a factor.

danglerb

27mm, or 1-1/16" deep or extended socket. 24" ratchet very handy for this.