svo-ed

Hello all,

With everyone's help on Rennlist, I was able to get the car running, but the car is not running well and is not drivable. I am hoping that you all can guide me towards the most likely cause of my problem.

The car is a 1984 Euro 928 (automatic) that was purchased at an estate sale. It has been sitting for at least a year but likely more.

I installed a new air cleaner and added 10 gallons of fresh 92 octane gas. I also installed a new alternator.

Current situation: The car starts right up but wants to stall, however, I can keep it running after startup by coaxing the gas and then holding it at 2000 rpms for about 30- 45 seconds...then when I let off the gas it slowly drops down to a nice smooth and steady 750 rpms (it does not lobe and runs very smooth at idle). When at idle, if I give it gas it hesitates majorly (the rpms will go up after the hesitation and then it will run smooth at a fixed RPM). When you let up on the gas pedal the rpms will drop back down to idle very, very slowly (it really takes its time dropping back to idle).

I tried driving the car (just down to the end of the road I live on) and it ran horrible. I had some backfires, it lacked power, it hesitated and there was sputtering (at one brief point the full power of the beast did kick in and it was a nice rush of forward thrust!).

Also, the car is running very rich. -- Any thoughts as to the most likely cause?

These are my next items of attack – I chose these items because they are inexpensive, easy to do and should be done anyway, even if the car was running well:
Clean and polish all fuses and fuse holders
Clean all grounds
New fuel filter
New battery
New Spark plugs
New Ignition wires
New Vacuum hose kit
New Mass air meter rubber "O" ring
New Air intake rubber connector hose (large diameter hose that connects air filter assembly to the air meter)

Thanks!
Ed

longleader

Did you drain the gas tank or just put gas in it. I would drain the tank (a pain now that you added 10 gallons) and change the filter and fuel lines and all the other parts that you listed. I would also clean the 14 pin connector and CE panel.

svo-ed

Hi Longleader,

Thanks for the fast reply!

Instead of draining the gas, couldn't I add an injector cleaner or gas additive that bonds to the water and then just "run through" the gas?

Also, based on the symptoms (i.e.: smooth running with the hesitation upon giving gas followed by a super slow return to idle) wouldn't it possibly be
1. A vacuum leak?
2. a clogged fuel filter?
3. plugs or ignition wires?

Its the slow return to idle that I think may be our best clue?

Oh, and I will add "cleaning the 14 pin connector"...Great idea and I would never have thought of that. -- Thanks.

Ed

Mrmerlin

before you do any more testing complete the fix it list,
and also add to get the MAF rebuilt.
Also inspect the timing marks on the twin dizzy.

Put the engine at TDC and then make sure both cams are lined up,
then remove the caps and inspect that the rotors are both pointing to the respective hash marks on the distributor housings.

NOTE you may consider replacing the dizzy timing belt so you wont have to do this later.

also the ignition system has to have the correct coil wire going to the specific cap,
if the coil wires are switched then the engine wont run so mark them.

Then we can start diagnosing the running issues

Fabio421

It not wanting to run when cold could be due to a non working cold start circuit or a vacuum leak/s. Is this a CIS car or an LH euro? CIS is a mechanical fuel injection and the LH is electronic fuel injection so look to see if there are wires going to each injector to answer this question.

The hesitation when you blip the throttle is likely caused by gunked up injectors due to the car sitting for a long period of time. This problem should improve the more you run the car. A bottle of injector cleaner in the tank may help to improve this problem more quickly. I'd hold off on the fuel filter until you run it for awhile. Also, check that the throttle linkage and related items are moving freely, including the gas pedal. Sometimes the pedal can stay slightly depressed because of the floor mat.

How long was the car sitting? Have you inspected the timing belt yet? Make sure it's not dry rotted before you run the car too much.

Fabio421

Wow, I took waaaay too long to type that out. When I started there was only a response by Longleader.

svo-ed

The car has been sitting for about 1 year, but it could be more like 1-1/2 years.

Since getting the car started, I have only run the car for a total of about ten minutes. I am trying to avoid running it too much until I put in the Mobil 1, 15w50 oil (recommended by Roger at 928srus) and new filter I purchased.

I am trying to address actual causes for problems rather than just throwing money at the car. I have no problem investing in tune up parts that it would needed anyway. Over time I will address the larger ticket repairs like the MAF.

The timing belt should be addressed asap.

I think the dizzy belt suggestion is a winner and I will price out belt with Roger.

If any of you have questions about symptoms or have any tests you would like me to perform, please ask and I will perform tests and provided information.

Thanks...you guys are awesome!

Ed

ledee416

I have same car... and had similar problems. Check the MAF. Also, if you dont drop the tank and flush it, you will be sorry. Mine had about an inch of sludge on the bottom of it. you may want to replace fuel pump and filter as well. I did, and now it is running nicely.

Mrmerlin

SRSLY you dont have to perform any more testing,

you know the engine doesnt run well so you really need to restore all of the parts that will make the engine run correctly before any more testing is done.

Once you have completed your list and done things that have been posted in post 4 then your car should run properly.
A MAF will cause all sorts of running issues with the 84 Euro,
I had one (84 Euro) and went through exactly what you are now doing.

svo-ed

MrMerlin,
How can I test the MAF? Is there a way to clean the MAF...or repair it... or bypass it to eliminate it as the cause of the problems. If I new for sure that the MAF was the problem, I would shell out the ~$250 in a heart-beat.

What do you suggest for testing?

What about the SLOW return to idle?

Would the MAF cause misfire, hesitation and sputtering along with the slow return to idle?

Thanks.
Ed

svo-ed

Fabio421,

The car does have wires going to the injectors. (It is an LH.)

I agree to not run the car too much until timing belt is checked (plus I would like to add new oil so I know for sure the grade, type and age of oil. (I bought Mobil-1 , 15w50)

I am going to add some injector cleaner and let the car run for 20-30minutes and see if symptoms improve.

Ed

John Speake

Try unplugging the MAF and the car will start in limp home mode. It won't be at all happy responding to throttle, but it should tick over happily for as long as you want. (if slightly rich).

If it runs exactly the same as before then the MAF probably has no output volts.

Landseer

Double-check wire routing.
Run a compression check.
See how it runs.

Then disconnect battery.

I'd be premptively sending MAF away for rebuild, unless labeled repaired within last few years.

Pull intake, confirm injectors are right for Euro 84, then send to witchunter for clean, test and new pintle caps. On return in 7 days, replace all fuel lines, including the 8 each 50mm sections to the injectors. Use only what Roger or Greg recommend.

I'd replace the CPS premptively, unless records of recent replacement.

Do the belt replacement on the dual dizzy, plus the necessary 'washers', ask rog.

Ensure you got all the critical grounds.

Replace Temp II premptively.

Flush fuel tank and replace strainer and discharge hose and fuel pump premptively.

Try it.

Then take it down again for timing belt and gears. Don't assume its non-interference, that's a bonehead mistake on these, too risky.