928 writeup on Petrolicious
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928 writeup on Petrolicious
Not much that hasn't already been covered, but a nice way to kick the day off 
http://www.petrolicious.com/928-ways-to-kill-the-911
http://www.petrolicious.com/928-ways-to-kill-the-911
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Wow - with all these "spectacular reliability failures" its amazing how many are left... especially the ones with hunderds of thousands of miles - how did they ever make it?
This unreliability myth just keeps growing - how many 20+ year old cars don't have reliability issue examples primarily due to (previous?) owner neglect. Seems like the lazy press syndrome to me - they all read (and one up) each other...
Are catastrophic engine failures exactly rampant? - not significantly more than for other brands as far as I can see on properly maintained stock models...
Alan
This unreliability myth just keeps growing - how many 20+ year old cars don't have reliability issue examples primarily due to (previous?) owner neglect. Seems like the lazy press syndrome to me - they all read (and one up) each other...
Are catastrophic engine failures exactly rampant? - not significantly more than for other brands as far as I can see on properly maintained stock models...
Alan
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How myths are propogated...
The comparison is more appropriate with other super-cars of the time. The 911 has been refined so that Ivan Inertia doesn't ride behind the back seats any more, but that's been done more to mask the symptoms than to solve the basic problems. Porsche still considers the 911 family as their bread and butter, else they wouldn't refuse to put the more powerful 911 engines in the Cayman or Boxter cars where they would quickly show tail to their back-motored brethren.
Most look-backs at 928 history compare the 928 that was 35 years ago with what they sell today in the 991. No mention is made in these comparisons of the 924 and subsequent 944 cars that saved the company from bankruptcy. Not so much mention now that the moneymakers for the company are SUV's, and that the flagship car these days is a logical extrapolation of the 928 design philosophy, albeit with four doors. Car design and buyer habits have changed a lot in the 40 years since the 928 concept was formed. That 40 years is one third of the total time that automobiles have existed, and progress is generally exponential in technology. With the youngest 928 pushing twenty years old now, retro look-backs need to include the perspective of what the market included at that time.
I have very first-hand knowledge of how mid-70's 911 cars performed, and I know that they required much more intensive care than the 928 to keep them in top running condition. The idea that the 928 motor was somehow a grenade next to the 911 is very selective wishful thinking. Think "head studs" on 911's of that timeslice, and you'll see that there's nothing comparable in the 928's history. Cam chain tensioner issues trumped long timing belt issues; the only thing folks didn't like about the belt was that it was so long? So what?
Now back to your previously-scheduled browsing....
The comparison is more appropriate with other super-cars of the time. The 911 has been refined so that Ivan Inertia doesn't ride behind the back seats any more, but that's been done more to mask the symptoms than to solve the basic problems. Porsche still considers the 911 family as their bread and butter, else they wouldn't refuse to put the more powerful 911 engines in the Cayman or Boxter cars where they would quickly show tail to their back-motored brethren.
Most look-backs at 928 history compare the 928 that was 35 years ago with what they sell today in the 991. No mention is made in these comparisons of the 924 and subsequent 944 cars that saved the company from bankruptcy. Not so much mention now that the moneymakers for the company are SUV's, and that the flagship car these days is a logical extrapolation of the 928 design philosophy, albeit with four doors. Car design and buyer habits have changed a lot in the 40 years since the 928 concept was formed. That 40 years is one third of the total time that automobiles have existed, and progress is generally exponential in technology. With the youngest 928 pushing twenty years old now, retro look-backs need to include the perspective of what the market included at that time.
I have very first-hand knowledge of how mid-70's 911 cars performed, and I know that they required much more intensive care than the 928 to keep them in top running condition. The idea that the 928 motor was somehow a grenade next to the 911 is very selective wishful thinking. Think "head studs" on 911's of that timeslice, and you'll see that there's nothing comparable in the 928's history. Cam chain tensioner issues trumped long timing belt issues; the only thing folks didn't like about the belt was that it was so long? So what?
Now back to your previously-scheduled browsing....
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Interesting that the "writer" never says if he EVER drove a 928 !! Just regurgitating what he READ, but it got printed. And Dr. Bob is so right about the 911s of the Era....the magnesium engine cases were a disaster. Right up there with IMS bearing failure of the more recent model years.
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For my part: yes - sure!
Consider - does the current 991 have more in common (looks/features) with a 993 or a 928 GTS (each from 1994)... if you did this same comparison in 1978 - the differences would be much more evident... 928 - ahead of its time..
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
Consider - does the current 991 have more in common (looks/features) with a 993 or a 928 GTS (each from 1994)... if you did this same comparison in 1978 - the differences would be much more evident... 928 - ahead of its time..
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
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How myths are propogated...
The comparison is more appropriate with other super-cars of the time. The 911 has been refined so that Ivan Inertia doesn't ride behind the back seats any more, but that's been done more to mask the symptoms than to solve the basic problems. Porsche still considers the 911 family as their bread and butter, else they wouldn't refuse to put the more powerful 911 engines in the Cayman or Boxter cars where they would quickly show tail to their back-motored brethren.
Most look-backs at 928 history compare the 928 that was 35 years ago with what they sell today in the 991. No mention is made in these comparisons of the 924 and subsequent 944 cars that saved the company from bankruptcy. Not so much mention now that the moneymakers for the company are SUV's, and that the flagship car these days is a logical extrapolation of the 928 design philosophy, albeit with four doors. Car design and buyer habits have changed a lot in the 40 years since the 928 concept was formed. That 40 years is one third of the total time that automobiles have existed, and progress is generally exponential in technology. With the youngest 928 pushing twenty years old now, retro look-backs need to include the perspective of what the market included at that time.
I have very first-hand knowledge of how mid-70's 911 cars performed, and I know that they required much more intensive care than the 928 to keep them in top running condition. The idea that the 928 motor was somehow a grenade next to the 911 is very selective wishful thinking. Think "head studs" on 911's of that timeslice, and you'll see that there's nothing comparable in the 928's history. Cam chain tensioner issues trumped long timing belt issues; the only thing folks didn't like about the belt was that it was so long? So what?
Now back to your previously-scheduled browsing....
The comparison is more appropriate with other super-cars of the time. The 911 has been refined so that Ivan Inertia doesn't ride behind the back seats any more, but that's been done more to mask the symptoms than to solve the basic problems. Porsche still considers the 911 family as their bread and butter, else they wouldn't refuse to put the more powerful 911 engines in the Cayman or Boxter cars where they would quickly show tail to their back-motored brethren.
Most look-backs at 928 history compare the 928 that was 35 years ago with what they sell today in the 991. No mention is made in these comparisons of the 924 and subsequent 944 cars that saved the company from bankruptcy. Not so much mention now that the moneymakers for the company are SUV's, and that the flagship car these days is a logical extrapolation of the 928 design philosophy, albeit with four doors. Car design and buyer habits have changed a lot in the 40 years since the 928 concept was formed. That 40 years is one third of the total time that automobiles have existed, and progress is generally exponential in technology. With the youngest 928 pushing twenty years old now, retro look-backs need to include the perspective of what the market included at that time.
I have very first-hand knowledge of how mid-70's 911 cars performed, and I know that they required much more intensive care than the 928 to keep them in top running condition. The idea that the 928 motor was somehow a grenade next to the 911 is very selective wishful thinking. Think "head studs" on 911's of that timeslice, and you'll see that there's nothing comparable in the 928's history. Cam chain tensioner issues trumped long timing belt issues; the only thing folks didn't like about the belt was that it was so long? So what?
Now back to your previously-scheduled browsing....
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For my part: yes - sure!
Consider - does the current 991 have more in common (looks/features) with a 993 or a 928 GTS (each from 1994)... if you did this same comparison in 1978 - the differences would be much more evident... 928 - ahead of its time..
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
Consider - does the current 991 have more in common (looks/features) with a 993 or a 928 GTS (each from 1994)... if you did this same comparison in 1978 - the differences would be much more evident... 928 - ahead of its time..
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
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Consider - does the current 991 have more in common (looks/features) with a 993 or a 928 GTS (each from 1994)... if you did this same comparison in 1978 - the differences would be much more evident... 928 - ahead of its time..
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
I'd post pctures - but thats not possible right now...
Alan
I think the new 991 is way closer to any 928 than any 911.
Even recent ones.
Inside and out.
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FWIW - visited my local wrench the other day. Had a boxster in the workshop . Was in a for a major service 3-4 months ago, and knowing about the IMS issue, wrench offered to upgrade it for $1k ($600 in parts $400 in labour). No, leave it, says the owner.
Guess what - its back for a rebuild, $10k without looking at the heads at all.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
Guess what - its back for a rebuild, $10k without looking at the heads at all.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
