911tracker85

great thread.

I first got my 85 911 in 1989, sold in 1997, and bought back a year later. to quote my wife, "Well the bitch is back".

then started DE and have done a lot of work and modest upgrades. got my 84 928 about 5 yrs ago to become my semi-DD as the 911 with cage, seats, harsh suspension was not a comfortable street driver.

love them both.

my brother-in-law has been lusting for my 928 for a couple years after I let him drive it. but does not have enough funds to get me to sell to him with all the work I have done on it, more on this later.

almost stuffed my 911 last year at MidOhio, so it got me wondering if I really wanted to end up stuffing or blowing it up. way too nice a car and have had so long. so decided to retire it from the track, and revert to near stock appearance. bolt-in cage and seats will go, and return the stock seats. will leave the mechanical upgrades in place, with stock seats and no cage will be a top-off pleasure car.

so I got an 86 944 turbo project car to become my DE, have to finish installing / building the engine.

after some discussion with my bro-in-law on budget, found a nice 87 944S not running. got it running and am in the process of refreshing to sell to him.

enjoying getting into these 944 after all the work on my 911 and 928. cant wait to be able to drive them.

as many have commented we love Porsches, and love how different they all are. clearly I am partial to the '80s generations, I can afford them and work on them. now if I had just won that BIG lotto this past weekend.

I have two friends who are musicians. one has over 30 guitars. all different to play, different sound.

cobalt

I agree a lot of people including myself did not care much for the new bumpers initially. Although I always thought the bumpers on my SC looked like an afterthought. Interestingly the bumpers are the same height on both, the bellows on the earlier cars seemed to distract the eye from it though. I still enjoy the light weight feel of the earlier cars but the torsion bar suspension has always been a downside for me. The 964 is far stiffer and the coil over suspension was a huge improvement. The only downside of the 964 IMO is the added weight, the early 89-90 cars had issues with the dual mass flywheel and head studs not to mention their cheeping out by not using rings for the heads on the 89-90 engines. All these problems were resolved by 91.

I would argue the 964 is equal to or IMO better than the 993 for several reasons. As much as I enjoy the 993 IMO it is too refined loosing that raw sports car feel (another sign they were trying to make it more of a GT car than sports car). Also Porsche switched to assembly line production for the 993 and I feel the build quality is not as good although under the outer skin the cars are nearly identical except for the rear kinematic suspension that is so difficult to set up properly especially on the C4's. By doing so Porsche introduced the 993 at $5k less than the 964 and IMO it shows in the build. I also prefer the 5 speed over the 6 speed box (at least US gearing was better) Still a fantastic car the 993 looks are equally subjective I like the rear of the 993 but hate the front and how the lines transition into the sills.

Its all good but not everyone agrees on aesthetics.

cobalt

So you know what i mean when I say jumping from a 944 to a 911 to a 928 that each car couldn't be more different. I actually got a lead on a 944 turbo with very low miles I might snag if I can get it for the right price. My son is approaching the driving years and although too much car for a beginner I think he has the skills and maturity to handle it. Besides they were fun cars too. He is so ready to start AX and DE I just hope I am ready.

The Fixer

Cobalt,

I absolutely agree regarding the lightweight aspect of the 964, and i like the styling. It is the last of the original concept as you are aware.

The SC bumpers are and afterthought, our DOT was just ruining car designs back then. Hence with the 928 this issue was addressed properly.

Interesting how Porsche made the already rigid 3.2L 911 more so with the 964; they glued in the windshield and rear glass in rather than the gasket method which went back to its original design.

I like the '84-'86 3.2 L cars with cable clutch best, you can make em so light w/o losing your interior. I noticed such a gain doing this w/o major engine mods just going with f g IROC bumper valences, aero mirrors and getting rid of things like the charcoal canister, A C and exhaust catalyst to name a few.
Of course my spare tire and pump sits on a shelf with the rest of the stuff not needed. (AAA)
I am at 2480 lbs. and have every piece of leather interior except for the shift boot cover.
I think it was 2800 to start. Hard to believe.

I really want to get the 928 lighter,(3000 lbs) i may remove the hidden aluminum bumpers and all rear glass for lexan.
I was thinking how cool it would be to make a mold of the rear hatch and have it entirely made of F G with lexan window. That sucker is heavy.

Cosmo Kramer

I currently do for a few more days. New owner is picking up the 928 in a few days. I sold my Audi A4 daily driver and bought a 1999 996 to drive every day all year round!

The Fixer

Nice 996 Ted, good luck with it. They have a much more raw 911 feel than the 997s do. Most don't know that.

928drvr86.5

I have both.

cobalt

The 964 was actually 89% all new parts and body was extensively revised. I love the old cars I had this 74 RS clone for 19 years and it was a fantastic ride. It was built in Germany by an ex factory werks mechanic who worked on the RS/RSR projects and was a factory driver until a bad accident retired him from racing. I imported this car in the 80's during the grey market along with numerous others. The car was based on a 79 SC, motor was built by Max Moritz using his 3.2 liter P&C's dyno tested at roughly 272 HP and torque was somewhere in the 240 range. It had factory IROC front bumper with oil cooler built into the body as they did with the RSR's. The hood, fenders and door skins were all IROC parts with IROC suspension and the entire body was acid dipped before reassembly. The car weighed in at 2390 pounds with a full tank of gas and full interior. I am sure i could have dropped it down by another 100-200 pounds. No A/C, power windows or sun roof, upgrade brakes etc,etc,etc. One of the biggest mistakes I made was letting this car go. She was faster than a 930 off the line but slower when pulling from 60 up side by side. It was a fantastic ride, the only thing the guy who had it built omitted for personal preference was the IROC tail and retained the sills and mirrors . It even had the factory correct wheels. Oh well it was either that or the 3.6T at the time and I guess i can't complain.

BTW I am impressed how many of us own both a 928 and 911.

Cosmo Kramer

You are right, it is much more nimble then the 928 but there is a catch: If you f-up it will punish you HARD! Mine has no psm, no lsd, no traction control so it's all me!

Rufus Griscom

Cobalt -- if you are still on this forum, you couldn't be more right. I bought a grey 964 targa with 58,000 miles on it three years ago, when you posted this, for $29,000 (pics below). This summer I had a guy offer me $65,000 for it (admittedly i have invested another $12k redoing suspension, new clutch, etc etc. ) I thought about selling it and buying a 3 year old 991 for the $65k (I do like those 991s), but it would devalue, and I think the 964 will continue to appreciate... and i fricken love driving the car

Rufus Griscom

p.s. i will never forget driving in a friends 928s in highschool ... it was as transcendent experience ... seems to me like they are undervalued. What is the ideal collectors 928 these days? how much do they trade for?

77tony

Been diggin this 15 GTS. Very similar in length/width/weight as the 928. This 911 is much more modern though and analog vs digital is the best description I've heard so far. T

bubba928

Enjoy reading the comments that have been said, very different cars.

My first 928 was an early 1986 automatic and my first Porsche, purchased in 1991. Never considered a 911. A great highway cruiser and I started doing track events with it. I became a track addict though and traded it in for a 1991 928GT, as I wanted a manual transmission for the track. Numerous mods were made to the car over the years because of track usage, often 25-30 days a year.

However, in 2006, the car was getting a bit "tired" because of all the track time. I did not want to "strip" down the car to reduce weight because it was such a rare car, but, I wanted to continue my track addiction.

The best replacement to me, at the time, was a pre-owned 996 GT3, a very different animal, which was purchased in August, 2006. Track mods were made to that car too and today it's my track car. The 928GT was brought back to "street" condition and is now my highway cruiser. Now, pro and cons:

928GT Pros: Timeless design and wonderful build quality. It's a bank vault. It has a wonderful power band with the manual transmission and third gear has incredible pulling power. The look forward from the driver's seat is very unique and I love the instruments. The engine is beautiful to look at. And, it's very comfortable for long distance trips. On the track, once up to speed, the car became considerably "smaller" and gave many other Porsches a run for their money. A lot of other model Porsche drivers did not like to be passed on the track by a 928! On track it was very well balanced and relatively to drive at speed.
Cons: It's a very complex car to maintain and one shouldn't let the work slip as there is always something that needs to be done on the car. I think it was a poor choice to use a belt instead of chains for the cams, but I understand why. That's about it.

996GT3 Pros: It's a rocket ship that makes the 928 seem slow. The Metzger engine is a jewel, once certain issues are dealt with. The steering is more communicative and razer sharp. The three quarter rear view is wonderful. The noise and the immediacy of the acceleration have to be experienced to be appreciated. There are no "nanny" state safety aids, only an LSD and ABS. For a 12 year old car, it's still remarkable how many newer cars I can pass on the track. Lastly, on track, one must really respect its capabilities or, it will go home on a flatbed.
Cons: The build quality, especially the interior is crap. The doors have a cheap, tinny sound when closed. The suspension is bone crushing on Michigan roads. It has been just as expensive to maintain as the 928.

I love both cars in different ways and both garner the same amount of attention on public roads. Lastly, we should consider ourselves very fortunate to own any Porsche for there are many people who never will own one. They are my Fire and my Ice.

BauerR

Have both but brand new to the 928 world

SwayBar

1996 993 C2 6-Speed, Black Metallic, Flamenco Red Interior



87 S4 5-Speed, Can Can Interior

Love both for different reasons.

I can sell the 993 for $20k more than what I paid for it 13 years ago - the last of the air-cooled Porsche's. I get comments on that car wherever I go, a real head turner.