CDR220 Power problem
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Cromwell, New Zealand
CDR220 Power problem
Hi, 1990 S4.
NO AMP.
I installed Hans excellent front door speakers the other day (needed to modify the metal backing in the door card to stop the speaker conductors shorting) I had hoped that this would solve the issue I have with the CDR220 but it hasn't.
When I have any pair (FL, FR), (RL, RR), (FL, RL), or (FR, RR) going (others faded or balanced out) then I can turn the volume up to full (40) without an issue. Display light on headunit blinks slightly.
When I have all channels going the unit will cutout around the 25 - 30 volume, depending on track). Light on headunit blinks from volume 15 & up.
I plugged the unit directly into a portable battery and was able to turn volume to full (40) on all channels with only minor blinking of the display light. This suggests to me that it is a power supply issue to the headunit.
I clean all grounds regularly and have done the CE panel within the last few years as well.
Is this normal for a CDR220 in a 928 using the stock wiring or do i have a specific issue?
Any ideas where the best place to start looking is?
Thanks,
Myles
NO AMP.
I installed Hans excellent front door speakers the other day (needed to modify the metal backing in the door card to stop the speaker conductors shorting) I had hoped that this would solve the issue I have with the CDR220 but it hasn't.
When I have any pair (FL, FR), (RL, RR), (FL, RL), or (FR, RR) going (others faded or balanced out) then I can turn the volume up to full (40) without an issue. Display light on headunit blinks slightly.
When I have all channels going the unit will cutout around the 25 - 30 volume, depending on track). Light on headunit blinks from volume 15 & up.
I plugged the unit directly into a portable battery and was able to turn volume to full (40) on all channels with only minor blinking of the display light. This suggests to me that it is a power supply issue to the headunit.
I clean all grounds regularly and have done the CE panel within the last few years as well.
Is this normal for a CDR220 in a 928 using the stock wiring or do i have a specific issue?
Any ideas where the best place to start looking is?
Thanks,
Myles
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,024
Likes: 94
From: New Canaan, CT
Don't have any experience with this but have had similar issues with a home stereo. I think there is an internal safety that is being triggered when it sees excessive amps being delivered from the amp. This is a self preservation safety to make sure it does not burn the amp out.
So when you have a partial load with some speakers running it is ok. However when all the speakers are on the circuit it overloads the circuit and it cuts of on the safety.
So when you have a partial load with some speakers running it is ok. However when all the speakers are on the circuit it overloads the circuit and it cuts of on the safety.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,581
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From: Gibsonia, PA
You know I just experienced this same thing last night. This was the first time I had my 928 out since my CDR-220 install. Came back from a good drive and parked in the garage. I good song came on, so I turned the key to the first pos. to see how loud I could go without distortion. Somewhere in the high volume range (I don't remember where) the unit just cut out. As I lowered the volume the display kind of blinked to the beat of the music.
No factory fader or amp use.
No factory fader or amp use.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Friday Harbor, WA
Here are my comments from a couple of years ago, this post:
The CDR-220 connects to both the continuous (bus-30) 12-volt connection and the switched (bus-15) connection, as usual. The first keeps the memory alive, the second switches the radio on and off. However, this unit is relatively unique in that it draws its primary power from the continuous 12-volts, and uses the switched 12-volts as a power on/off signal.
So with the key off, you can press the "on" button on the radio and it comes on, for up to an hour. This is terrific for hanging out in ferry lines for example. And when you turn the key on, then the radio comes on, if it was on when the key was last turned off. Pretty slick!
The only problem with that scheme is that the continuous 12-volts (bus-30) wiring for the factory radio is a skinny 1-mm wire that comes from the filter located with the amp, next to the passenger seat. When the head-unit keys the amplifier on, the voltage drop through that skinny wire plus the drop to the amp was enough to turn the radio off again-- resulting in just a "thump, thump" whenever the radio was turned on. The fix was to run a separate 14-ga wire from the amp connection on the CE panel (E-24 for an '88) direct to the continuous +12v radio connection.
So with the key off, you can press the "on" button on the radio and it comes on, for up to an hour. This is terrific for hanging out in ferry lines for example. And when you turn the key on, then the radio comes on, if it was on when the key was last turned off. Pretty slick!
The only problem with that scheme is that the continuous 12-volts (bus-30) wiring for the factory radio is a skinny 1-mm wire that comes from the filter located with the amp, next to the passenger seat. When the head-unit keys the amplifier on, the voltage drop through that skinny wire plus the drop to the amp was enough to turn the radio off again-- resulting in just a "thump, thump" whenever the radio was turned on. The fix was to run a separate 14-ga wire from the amp connection on the CE panel (E-24 for an '88) direct to the continuous +12v radio connection.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 286
From: Gibsonia, PA
I am pretty sure this is a power issue, on the continuous-12v connection to the radio (bus-30).
Here are my comments from a couple of years ago, this post:
Porsche runs a heavy, separately fused continuous +12v to the amp location, I picked it up there and ran it back to the head unit with 14ga wire (same path as speaker wires, following the factory harness across the front of the passenger seat). You could also come directly from the CE panel, which would be a shorter run.
Here are my comments from a couple of years ago, this post:
Porsche runs a heavy, separately fused continuous +12v to the amp location, I picked it up there and ran it back to the head unit with 14ga wire (same path as speaker wires, following the factory harness across the front of the passenger seat). You could also come directly from the CE panel, which would be a shorter run.
Side note: Playing the music through the AUX connection from my Ipod, without the car running. Getting 12+ volts at the 30 term (Permanent plus) on the harness connection.
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From: Friday Harbor, WA
Jim, I just did this exact connection on my 85 today. Still having the same power issue. Cuts out on certain tracks with the volume only at 13 or 14. Some tracks I can get to about 18 before it cuts out. Anything else I can look for or try?
Side note: Playing the music through the AUX connection from my Ipod, without the car running. Getting 12+ volts at the 30 term (Permanent plus) on the harness connection.
Side note: Playing the music through the AUX connection from my Ipod, without the car running. Getting 12+ volts at the 30 term (Permanent plus) on the harness connection.
If the engine is running (or you hook up a battery charger) does it still exhibit the cutout symptom on heavy bass? If it is a voltage-drop problem then starting with more volts should help isolate the problem.
The CDR-220 is different than most, in that the continuous 12v connection (30-bus) powers the radio and internal amps, and the switched power (15-bus) is just a signal line that tells the unit when it is supposed to be "on". So any drop on the 30-bus connection is trouble.
I would also consider adding an external power amp, there are small ones that will fit handily under the hump next to the passenger's seat. Ours is a Soundstream PN4.320D, 60w x4 and 4.75 x 7 x 2".
I hope this helps, please post what you find.
Cheers, Jim
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 286
From: Gibsonia, PA
Rick, this still sounds like a voltage issue on the 30-bus (continuous 12v). It is usually the heavy bass that causes troubles (hence the giant wires on most subwoofer amps). I would grab the multimeter and start checking voltages: First check +12v on the jump-post and the big red wires to the CE panel (should be 12.5 to 12.7 if the car was recently run and the battery is charged). Then (with heavy bass playing but not loud enough to trip it off) check the voltage at the connector at the back of the radio. A tenth or two less voltage is OK there, more than that is a bad connection or too-skinny wire. And check the grounds also, it could be a ground-point problem.
If the engine is running (or you hook up a battery charger) does it still exhibit the cutout symptom on heavy bass? If it is a voltage-drop problem then starting with more volts should help isolate the problem.
The CDR-220 is different than most, in that the continuous 12v connection (30-bus) powers the radio and internal amps, and the switched power (15-bus) is just a signal line that tells the unit when it is supposed to be "on". So any drop on the 30-bus connection is trouble.
I would also consider adding an external power amp, there are small ones that will fit handily under the hump next to the passenger's seat. Ours is a Soundstream PN4.320D, 60w x4 and 4.75 x 7 x 2".
I hope this helps, please post what you find.
Cheers, Jim
If the engine is running (or you hook up a battery charger) does it still exhibit the cutout symptom on heavy bass? If it is a voltage-drop problem then starting with more volts should help isolate the problem.
The CDR-220 is different than most, in that the continuous 12v connection (30-bus) powers the radio and internal amps, and the switched power (15-bus) is just a signal line that tells the unit when it is supposed to be "on". So any drop on the 30-bus connection is trouble.
I would also consider adding an external power amp, there are small ones that will fit handily under the hump next to the passenger's seat. Ours is a Soundstream PN4.320D, 60w x4 and 4.75 x 7 x 2".
I hope this helps, please post what you find.
Cheers, Jim
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 286
From: Gibsonia, PA
Rick, this still sounds like a voltage issue on the 30-bus (continuous 12v). It is usually the heavy bass that causes troubles (hence the giant wires on most subwoofer amps). I would grab the multimeter and start checking voltages: First check +12v on the jump-post and the big red wires to the CE panel (should be 12.5 to 12.7 if the car was recently run and the battery is charged). Then (with heavy bass playing but not loud enough to trip it off) check the voltage at the connector at the back of the radio. A tenth or two less voltage is OK there, more than that is a bad connection or too-skinny wire. And check the grounds also, it could be a ground-point problem.
If the engine is running (or you hook up a battery charger) does it still exhibit the cutout symptom on heavy bass? If it is a voltage-drop problem then starting with more volts should help isolate the problem.
The CDR-220 is different than most, in that the continuous 12v connection (30-bus) powers the radio and internal amps, and the switched power (15-bus) is just a signal line that tells the unit when it is supposed to be "on". So any drop on the 30-bus connection is trouble.
I would also consider adding an external power amp, there are small ones that will fit handily under the hump next to the passenger's seat. Ours is a Soundstream PN4.320D, 60w x4 and 4.75 x 7 x 2".
I hope this helps, please post what you find.
Cheers, Jim
If the engine is running (or you hook up a battery charger) does it still exhibit the cutout symptom on heavy bass? If it is a voltage-drop problem then starting with more volts should help isolate the problem.
The CDR-220 is different than most, in that the continuous 12v connection (30-bus) powers the radio and internal amps, and the switched power (15-bus) is just a signal line that tells the unit when it is supposed to be "on". So any drop on the 30-bus connection is trouble.
I would also consider adding an external power amp, there are small ones that will fit handily under the hump next to the passenger's seat. Ours is a Soundstream PN4.320D, 60w x4 and 4.75 x 7 x 2".
I hope this helps, please post what you find.
Cheers, Jim
Engine not running 12.9v at the jump post.
With the ENGINE RUNNING the radio experienced NO cut out. I couldn't turn it up to max, due to speaker distortion. Had it way past where it was cutting out before though.
Checking voltage at the harness, Switched Plus (ingnition) #7 - 13.76v (These seem high, but that's what the MM showed)
Positive Plus (Term 30) #4 - 13.76v
With the ENGINE OFF the radio didn't experience cut out...... AT FIRST
Checking voltage at the harness. Key in OFF Poss. Switched Plus #7 - 0v (as it should)
Positive Plus #4 - 13v
Checking voltage at the harness. Key in On/Access Poss. Switched Plus #7 - 12.3v
Positive Plus #4 - 12.2v
As I opened the doors and hatch, turned the lights on etc, the radio did it's usual cut out. Makes sense though, with all the other things on (without the engine running) the voltage was dropping to the radio.
So, as you said it was still a voltage issue. But, with my new direct connection to the Positive Plus and the engine running, the radio should work as it's suppose to. If the engine is off, it should work pretty good as long as I don't have any other accessories pulling voltage.
Another thing a found out in all this, is that my antenna amp wasn't connected to a power source. I connected that to a 12v line. I didn't notice a difference in reception in the garage though, with it attached to power or not. (either way, I was getting surprisingly good reception) I'll keep it attached to 12v.
At some point I'll consider the external power amp you recommended.
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!