Slushboxes vs manuals
02-19-2013, 11:10 PM
#61
Captain Obvious
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Having watched that video, I can say that if not having a 5 speed means I can't do that, I'm good with it. What a couple of morons. Darwin will catch up and let's hope they take themselves out before they kill anyone else.
Now if we are talking about putting the car sideways in a drift, yea, I can do that all day long. Tires are expensive so I'm still good not doing it.
Now if we are talking about putting the car sideways in a drift, yea, I can do that all day long. Tires are expensive so I'm still good not doing it.
02-19-2013, 11:26 PM
#62
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Manuals have always been more prevalent in Europe. The number of manual transmission cars available in Europe and not the US has always been extensive.
The most recent example is the Land Rover Evoque. Rover knows the US market is a dead end for a manual so they don't even offer it here.
Ever see a 5-speed S-class Mercedes? They exist, but not in the US (unless you import one).
Automatic Corvette's have outsold manuals by 70% since the 70's.
Muscle cars are heavily preferred with automatics for drag racing - name one car designed in Europe that comes with a power glide.
Diesel engine + manual transmissions go together like ham & eggs, which are far more common in Europe than the US.
When BMW created the Alpina Edition Z8 they were targeting Americans......they only came in an automatic.
02-19-2013, 11:27 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
You are missing the point by a mile. That level of car control will not happen with an automatic. Stupid or not, it takes talent to pull something like that off. A manual transmission connects the driver to the car in ways that an automatic never can. Lift off in a drift with an automatic and it will upshift on its own. If the solution to this is to keep the selector in a gear then, that's the same as what a manual transmission does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-au...c_transmission
02-20-2013, 12:30 AM
#64
Race Car
Manuals have always been more prevalent in Europe. The number of manual transmission cars available in Europe and not the US has always been extensive.
The most recent example is the Land Rover Evoque. Rover knows the US market is a dead end for a manual so they don't even offer it here.
Ever see a 5-speed S-class Mercedes? They exist, but not in the US (unless you import one).
Automatic Corvette's have outsold manuals by 70% since the 70's.
Muscle cars are heavily preferred with automatics for drag racing - name one car designed in Europe that comes with a power glide.
Diesel engine + manual transmissions go together like ham & eggs, which are far more common in Europe than the US.
When BMW created the Alpina Edition Z8 they were targeting Americans......they only came in an automatic.
People also like to cite the almost negligible shift times of an auto as a reason for superior performance, but fail to mention (or do not know) that older automatics such as the ones in the 928 are slushing away a portion of engine power constantly in every gear at all speeds. There's a reason why at the dyno automatics put down ~5% lower numbers than equivalent manuals. A manual 928 can also be shifted very fast, like 0.5 seconds from the point power is off to the point power is on again, and I have the ST2 logs to prove it.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-20-2013, 03:05 AM
#66
02-20-2013, 05:44 AM
#67
Nordschleife Master
What is funny to me is that neither the manual or the automatic used in a 928 is more than mediocre with MUCH better examples of each type in other cars. If a 928 shifted like a T56 or had an aggressive automatic like a newer vette we would not be having this conversation.
02-20-2013, 07:49 AM
#68
Craic Head
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Imre,
You're not helping your cause with that video.
I'm on your side and think a 928 was meant to be driven as a 5-speed, but to post a video of a couple of morons who drive a manual (and shift it like they hate the task, or at least the clutch) is not a way of making your point.
Hacker, I don't understand your point about ham & eggs being more prevalent in Europe than in the US, but I respect your right to say so.
You're not helping your cause with that video.
I'm on your side and think a 928 was meant to be driven as a 5-speed, but to post a video of a couple of morons who drive a manual (and shift it like they hate the task, or at least the clutch) is not a way of making your point.
Hacker, I don't understand your point about ham & eggs being more prevalent in Europe than in the US, but I respect your right to say so.
Last edited by Mike Frye; 02-20-2013 at 09:53 AM.
02-20-2013, 09:12 AM
#69
"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where manual transmissions are so prevalent. Go to Asia, UK, developing world.."
Darn! I mistyped.. I meant to type:
"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where AUTOMATIC transmissions are so prevalent."
All my cars are stick.
Darn! I mistyped.. I meant to type:
"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where AUTOMATIC transmissions are so prevalent."
All my cars are stick.
02-20-2013, 01:33 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
This is an amazing thread!
Always a good sign when so many posts are from guys on my ignore list. That indicates "high" quality.
It's a good time for it, too. It's getting late in the Winter but not yet Spring. At least not in the civilized parts of the Northern Hemisphere. (E.g., not Texas) so people have time on their hands. There are better uses than baiting people who prefer an automatic transmission in their Porsche, but it's still entertaining.
And such wisdom! Using a manual isn't hard but it's too much bother. Race cars don't have clutches! New manual transmissions don't have clutches! Yeah, slushboys, they don't have transmissions just like the Hydra-Matic that Oldsmobile offered in 1940, either. Who cares if it's an MB unit, it's still designed for women and old people to drive. Especially old women and, specifically, old dentists' wives.
As for driving it on the track, that auto is sucking 5% of the power out. It also doesn't allow precise control of gear changes. It's not when it changes or which gear it goes to, the critical issue is how hard it goes into the next gear. When you're at the limit in a corner it's how smoothly it engages that matter and the ability to immediately back it down or disengage it if needed. F1 has no clutch? Get with reality. These are not F1 cars, you will never drive an F1 car and you will never be an F1-caliber driver.
People who know say an auto "only" costs a second or two in a typical track. That'd be a second or two out of 1:30 or two minutes. Not much on the margin but huge on the track. 2 seconds per lap is forever between similar cars and in a class it's the span between first and whatever.
So you just want to hold down the gas and accelerate. Or tootle along country roads. Fine. It's your life. You don't need a sports car for that and these are sports cars. The 928 is called a "GT" only because it was bigger than the 911 of the day and had luxury options. I like my leather dash, incidentally.
In conclusion, the automatic 928 is the right choice for old women of all genders.
Always a good sign when so many posts are from guys on my ignore list. That indicates "high" quality.
It's a good time for it, too. It's getting late in the Winter but not yet Spring. At least not in the civilized parts of the Northern Hemisphere. (E.g., not Texas) so people have time on their hands. There are better uses than baiting people who prefer an automatic transmission in their Porsche, but it's still entertaining.
And such wisdom! Using a manual isn't hard but it's too much bother. Race cars don't have clutches! New manual transmissions don't have clutches! Yeah, slushboys, they don't have transmissions just like the Hydra-Matic that Oldsmobile offered in 1940, either. Who cares if it's an MB unit, it's still designed for women and old people to drive. Especially old women and, specifically, old dentists' wives.
As for driving it on the track, that auto is sucking 5% of the power out. It also doesn't allow precise control of gear changes. It's not when it changes or which gear it goes to, the critical issue is how hard it goes into the next gear. When you're at the limit in a corner it's how smoothly it engages that matter and the ability to immediately back it down or disengage it if needed. F1 has no clutch? Get with reality. These are not F1 cars, you will never drive an F1 car and you will never be an F1-caliber driver.
People who know say an auto "only" costs a second or two in a typical track. That'd be a second or two out of 1:30 or two minutes. Not much on the margin but huge on the track. 2 seconds per lap is forever between similar cars and in a class it's the span between first and whatever.
So you just want to hold down the gas and accelerate. Or tootle along country roads. Fine. It's your life. You don't need a sports car for that and these are sports cars. The 928 is called a "GT" only because it was bigger than the 911 of the day and had luxury options. I like my leather dash, incidentally.
In conclusion, the automatic 928 is the right choice for old women of all genders.
02-20-2013, 01:37 PM
#71
Administrator - "Tyson"
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"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where manual transmissions are so prevalent. Go to Asia, UK, developing world.."
Darn! I mistyped.. I meant to type:
"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where AUTOMATIC transmissions are so prevalent."
All my cars are stick.
Darn! I mistyped.. I meant to type:
"The US is the only country, figuratively speaking, where AUTOMATIC transmissions are so prevalent."
All my cars are stick.
I was wondering about that........
02-20-2013, 01:43 PM
#72
This is an amazing thread!
Always a good sign when so many posts are from guys on my ignore list. That indicates "high" quality.
It's a good time for it, too. It's getting late in the Winter but not yet Spring. At least not in the civilized parts of the Northern Hemisphere. (E.g., not Texas) so people have time on their hands. There are better uses than baiting people who prefer an automatic transmission in their Porsche, but it's still entertaining.
And such wisdom! Using a manual isn't hard but it's too much bother. Race cars don't have clutches! New manual transmissions don't have clutches! Yeah, slushboys, they don't have transmissions just like the Hydra-Matic that Oldsmobile offered in 1940, either. Who cares if it's an MB unit, it's still designed for women and old people to drive. Especially old women and, specifically, old dentists' wives.
As for driving it on the track, that auto is sucking 5% of the power out. It also doesn't allow precise control of gear changes. It's not when it changes or which gear it goes to, the critical issue is how hard it goes into the next gear. When you're at the limit in a corner it's how smoothly it engages that matter and the ability to immediately back it down or disengage it if needed. F1 has no clutch? Get with reality. These are not F1 cars, you will never drive and F1 car and you will never be an F1-caliber driver.
People who know say an auto "only" costs a second or two in a typical track. That'd be a second or two out of 1:30 or two minutes. Not much on the margin but huge on the track. 2 seconds per lap is forever between similar cars and in a class it's the span between first and whatever.
So you just want to hold down the gas and accelerate. Or tootle along country roads. Fine. It's your life. You don't need a sports car for that and these are sports cars. The 928 is called a "GT" only because it was bigger than the 911 of the day and had luxury options. I like my leather dash, incidentally.
In conclusion, the automatic 928 is the right choice for old women of all genders.
Always a good sign when so many posts are from guys on my ignore list. That indicates "high" quality.
It's a good time for it, too. It's getting late in the Winter but not yet Spring. At least not in the civilized parts of the Northern Hemisphere. (E.g., not Texas) so people have time on their hands. There are better uses than baiting people who prefer an automatic transmission in their Porsche, but it's still entertaining.
And such wisdom! Using a manual isn't hard but it's too much bother. Race cars don't have clutches! New manual transmissions don't have clutches! Yeah, slushboys, they don't have transmissions just like the Hydra-Matic that Oldsmobile offered in 1940, either. Who cares if it's an MB unit, it's still designed for women and old people to drive. Especially old women and, specifically, old dentists' wives.
As for driving it on the track, that auto is sucking 5% of the power out. It also doesn't allow precise control of gear changes. It's not when it changes or which gear it goes to, the critical issue is how hard it goes into the next gear. When you're at the limit in a corner it's how smoothly it engages that matter and the ability to immediately back it down or disengage it if needed. F1 has no clutch? Get with reality. These are not F1 cars, you will never drive and F1 car and you will never be an F1-caliber driver.
People who know say an auto "only" costs a second or two in a typical track. That'd be a second or two out of 1:30 or two minutes. Not much on the margin but huge on the track. 2 seconds per lap is forever between similar cars and in a class it's the span between first and whatever.
So you just want to hold down the gas and accelerate. Or tootle along country roads. Fine. It's your life. You don't need a sports car for that and these are sports cars. The 928 is called a "GT" only because it was bigger than the 911 of the day and had luxury options. I like my leather dash, incidentally.
In conclusion, the automatic 928 is the right choice for old women of all genders.
02-20-2013, 01:54 PM
#74
Administrator - "Tyson"
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She loves driving the 355GTS - no F1 shifter for her.
My father might be in the 928 market again, he told me to stop sending him listings for automatics. Said he's not old enough for one yet - turns 71 this year.
02-20-2013, 01:56 PM
#75
Nordschleife Master
I actually tend to agree with Glen L,
except in the instance of those who are handicapped and are unable to actually drive a manual.
I dont think I would call James M a woman!
except in the instance of those who are handicapped and are unable to actually drive a manual.
I dont think I would call James M a woman!