Ethre

I'm interested to hear about this - but a search of your posts is not bringing up anything as far as I can see.

123quattro

My local Audi dealership sold a CPO'ed S4 that they assembled from two totalled cars about 8 years ago. Owner was none to pleased when he discovered it a few weeks later. This stuff still happens.

hacker-pschorr

It still is and most are sitting on car lots with clean titles.

Most consumers have no clue how many cars on used lots are rebuilds. If the title used to sell the car is clean, the dealer doesn't have to disclose anything. In most states, as long as the VIN stays with the odometer, it's perfectly legal.

WallyP

Used to be a major problem in the UK (rust or wreck, failing MoT), and if I remember correctly, it was totally banned there many years ago.

hacker-pschorr

I don't see that ever happening here, the insurance companies would lose way too much money. VIN's with clear titles sell for a lot more money at insurance salvage auctions.

I've seen late model cars rolled into a ball, doesn't even look like a car anymore with clear titles at these auctions.

Look out for any used car coming from the east coast for the next 5+ years..........

James Bailey

The one very serious POC race acident from many years ago was a 914 which went off at speed and the car split into two pieces.....seems it had been "rebuilt" and was welded together just in front of the seats. That failed and was a very bad accident.
The use of unibody construction where there is no seperate frame and each and every piece of sheet metal forms part of the structure makes this knd of repair very unsafe as you never know if all the inner panels which you cannot see were also welded or just enough to hold it together long enough to sell it......or if the welds are any good at all.

Jim Devine

I know a tech at a BMW dealership that had to work on a rebuilt total 2 cars =1. The hacks that did the job were too lazy to re run the wiring harness.
They just cut them, opened up the ends & put
them together with butt connectors. Needless to say it was brought to the dealer due to electrical issues. It was a Craigslist car with no ppi by buyer- oops.

JHowell37

Do you have a pic of the entire vehicle. I'm curious to see if the job was passable otherwise.

9two8

Cars with repairs like this in the UK are considered "write offs" they are also known as "Cut-n-shuts".., totally illegal here , and very very dangerous.

Imagine what would happen to that car in a crash ?.. it really does,nt bare thinking about !!

Ken
80 928 S
5 Speed

UK

dcrasta

Nice.. Now I will be paranoid and searching for wierd welds for the next couple of weeks....

hacker-pschorr

In one trip to a local body shop (place that painted my Audi) they were building three cars out of at least 7 for a local car dealership.

One "pair" - Pontiac Grand Prix. The VIN donor looked like it was rear-ended by a train. The other half hit a tree pretty hard head on. The body guy was showing me how he was cutting apart the frames at the factory weld locations, unless you were an expert on this model, would never know - and yes, 100% clean title.

He also had what was left of three Ford Excursions that were going to be one truck when he was done. Think of that the next time you are towing 10,000lbs at 80mph

As for Carfax = spotless for all three vehicles in the end. These are not only "fly by night" dealerships either. The big names do it too.

Yet we still have people that will defend why Blue Book Value for dealership cars is higher than private party - because of the "warranty". A used car warranty is worth about as much as the piece of paper it's printed on (if that much) and even CPO cars are no immune. In the age of the internet and cars being shipped all over the country, they know the chances of a car coming back to them is very slim.

James Bailey

The ONLY reason cars get "rebuilt" is to make MONEY !! So they do it as cheaply as possible to make more money. When the cars are pretty new there can be a lot of potential profit. I too have seen a Honda being put together from two cars at a body shop cut at the rear doors and rear window....entire rear clip being welded on.

Speedtoys

Interesting.

At least those welds here, look better than about 1/2 of the cage welds I find in crashed racecars when I go inspect them for issues.

9two8

An extract from Vehicle - crime UK website...,


CUT AND SHUT



Cut and shuts are the most hazardous of all kinds of vehicle fraud. A cut and shut is where the remains of two or more cars have been welded together to create a 'new' vehicle.

The remains that are welded together are likely to be write-offs. For example, a vehicle with a front-end impact could see its rear being welded to a vehicle that has been rear-ended. The resulting vehicle is then resprayed and 'tarted up' to look like a genuine vehicle.

Considerable effort goes into the deception - cutting, welding, prepping, spraying, etc - but it is a deception, and there are no guarantees of structural integrity, safety, driveability, high speed handling, braking. It could be a deathtrap. It's essential, therefore, to be able to identify these vehicles on the secondhand market.

Official estimates say there could be 30,000 cut and shuts on UK roads. The problem is a vehicle history check would only pick up on outstanding finance or if a car had been a write-off.

If you are purchasing a secondhand car you should look out for the following signs as well as the normal mechanical checks you may make.



Cut and shuts are usually joined at the top of the rear windscreen and through the C-pillars ( the rear roof support ), and also check the roof lining.

Inside the car examine the middle section of the car, as this is where vehicles are commonly welded.

Keep an eye out for any uneven panel gaps and mismatched or varying paint shade.

Watch out for badly fitting or mismatched trim inside the car.

Look for paint colours that don't match properly - particularly on the bonnet ( under the sound proofing ) and in the spare wheel well in the boot.

Check for faint traces of paint spray on door handles and any spillage on the window seals.

Never view a car in the rain or poor light. It's harder to spot those important obvious flaws.

Find the car's VIN number. This is normally in the engine compartment. Does it correspond with what appears on the paperwork?

Look at the service history and past MoT certificates if available, and question any unexplained gaps.

Be wary of extremely cheap cars - if a deal sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.


As you can see it is quite a list for a layman. There's only one way to fully protect against cut and shuts and that is to have the car professionally inspected, and get a background report for extra peace of mind from an independent expert.


Ken
80 928 S
5 Speed

UK

slate blue

I would agree about the welds, welding the 928 body in the areas shown is not easy. It can be done but it will never be like "new". The issue you need to understand is that the 928 has a true galvanized body, not the ecoat that is common today. The galvanizing makes a proper weld impossible without correct preparation.

That preparation includes removing the "gal" or zinc, when you weld without removing the zinc the weld will be highly contaminated and very likely weak. The weld doesn't look like it has proper penetration and trying to weld that area properly is quite difficult.

When you get the weld metal hot enough to get the proper penetration, one, the zinc will often burn the metal away, two if this doesn't happen the weld on the other side will likely be highly oxidized by the oxygen getting to the white hot metal. Remember when you weld all welds are shielded in some way. They need this shielding to stop the metal burning. When the metal burns it's chemical composition changes and so does it's properties.

So apart from potential corrosion on the other side of these welds, you also have the potential weakness of the welds. I really wouldn't want to be in this car in a big accident.

I think rebodying the car makes sense, any parts left over can be sold or keep for spares in the future where they will be no doubt getting scarce.