4drgl

Couldnt be as painful as wiring, vw ce1 into ce2! Good info thx!

Landseer

Yeah, don't drink and post. I know. I know.

4drgl

I pulled the cover. It is a non lsd gearbox. Ohwell! Still only paid $90 for the transmission!

Anyway. I pulled the top cover as well. What am i looking for in terms of damage? There were no metal shavings on either drain plug. Do i need to use a feeler gauge to check the synchros. As well, the second to last gear before the differential side was pretty wobbly. Possible worn bearing?

I still cannot find my wsm... any help appreciated. Thx.

Podguy

I do not think I would worry about the wobbly gear. Look at the dog teeth. They should be near perfect. the lines on the syncro lines should be clear. anything shiny on the syncro rings represent wear.

To see most of this on a pre 85 box requires disassembly. The main front bearing is $500. It is tough to get around this one. Either have some growling when cold or spend a fortune on the front bearing.

4drgl

$500 for a bearing r u kidding?

Ok so look for wear on the teeth themselves "didnt see anything substantial, no gouges, no missing teeth, machine marks all still there.
".

shiny spots on the synchros... will have to look again

i need to give some pics...

Podguy

The Main Shaft Bearing fails to oil properly due to being on the end of the shaft and the oil drains off quickly. This causes it to make a rough growling noise when the transmission is cold. And yes those on the older cases cost $500 and I have yet to find a replacement. You can ask around as some one on the lost may have a replacement or a modification that will allow the newer bearing to be used which is only $55.

The gears are constant mesh gears. They remain in enguaged all the time and should not show much or any wear. if there are chips on the edge of the gears it means some metal has been rattling around in the case. Gears have to be replaced in sets. Minor chips on the gear sets can be smoothed up without much of a problem. But the chips need to be small and cannot drag on each other ot you will get an awful noise.

The gears ride on roller bearings. These can wear or become corroded. The transmission should be broken down to inspect the gears. They are cheap.

I understand you can second source syncros and dog teeth but I have no idea where.

4drgl

Clutch pics,

Socket at the top of the throwout bearing arm. The ball on the bellhousing is definity worn.


Pressure plate... I have not removed the arm/to bearing yet.


Inside of To bearing..




Pressure plate


First clutch disc/intermediate plate


Side view thickness first clutch (it's not warped... cell phone picture sorry)


Backside of first clutch


Intermediate Plate


Backside Intermediate plate


Second Clutch


Second clutch Thickness



And the pile of parts I picked up for a steal...

4drgl

I also re-inspected the transmission. I inserted a mirror into the case, and turned the gears. I was able to determine that there is no chips, or scoring of the gears. The transmission is a non-lsd gearbox. But in good shape. So I cleaned it, resealed it, and have installed it into the car.

As for the Torque Tube I have not replaced the cup socket on the end yet, or the bearings. So before install I will take care of those.

The engine needs motor mounts, and oil pan gasket and a timing belt, etc, so out it will come to do R&R work when I weld in the clutch master mount.

Dave928S

Pic 1 ... That should have a ball cup bushing pressed into it ... the old one has disintegrated. If the ball is worn you may have to replace it. It takes the same part number cup as on the front linkage on the TT.

Pic 2 ... You will need to remove the release arm to see if the PP fingers are grooved/worn from the TO bearing.

Pics 3 & 4 ... From the debris its possible that the throw out bearing is shot ... check it out for free operation and no noise.

Pics 5, 6 & 7... Those driven plates are aftermarket, and you should throw them out as they have an outer complete ring of friction material which is burning the PP and IP plate surfaces badly. The friction segments between the riveted plates are doing nothing, and the outer ring of friction material has overheated badly. The pressure plate surface may be irretrievably damaged, judging by the severely blued surface on the outer 8 to 10mm, and the carry of that bluing inwards. The design of those driven friction plates means that they will always wreck the PP and IP surfaces.

Pics 8 & 9 .... The intermediate plate is not as badly blued as the pressure plate and looks to me like it might be OK, if it's very lightly honed each side to assess burning, checked for straightness, and the adjustment points are firm.

Pics 10 & 11 .... Throw that driven plate out as well.

Pics 12, 13, 14 & 15 ....
Check the flywheel friction surface to show wear and any burning.
Check the torque tube for noise and wear of the splines. You can spin the TT up to a good speed, to check for running noise, with an electric drill; using a piece of rubber hose as a coupler, two hose clamps, and a steel reducer in the drill chuck. Edit: just saw you intend to replace bearings ... good idea WYAIT.

Keep posting pics as you check things.

4drgl

Thx for the advice. I know the clutch is a sachs unit. But havent figured out why theres bluing on the pp. Is this a common problem? Or just bad adjustment/install? Also a side note i found lock washers between the pressure plate and flywheel when i disassembled this car in the salvage yard? I assume the po was trying to correct something.

Dave928S

The clutch you have is an aftermarket SPEC unit, by the looks of it. The genuine Porsche/Sachs driven plates have friction material over a much greater area of the disc. The aftermarket one has a continuous rim of friction material, but is missing friction material where those large rivetted areas are.

The load is simply being taken by too small a friction area, and that's why its cooking the clutch driven plates and pressure plates.

OEM Sachs plate is on the left .. what you have is on the right. (Pics from 928 International and Ebay)

4drgl

Ah, like i said! Havent researched too much. Sorry for my misinformation. I appreciate the help/info. So somebody tried to stuff a high performance clutch n.... but its a cheapo...

so should i try to save the intermediate and pp? If theyre true "not warped" then resurfaced they should still be useful correct?. The flywheel is good already dropped off at my mmachine shop. Can i just purchase clutch discs or will i need a complete kit? Based on what you've seen of my parts?

Dave928S

It's likely that whoever put the parts in was trying to address a routine problem of wear or adjustment and thought aftermarket would be better ... all they needed to do was use the correct parts, get it within normal tolerances with correct adjustment, and it would have been OK. That's what you need to do now.

If all the other parts are dimensionally OK and surfaces aren't 'hot spotted' all the steel friction parts should be OK ... examine closely and check WSM minimum dimensions. Not sure what the clamping force of that PP is ... and you'll need to make sure the adjustments points on the IP are OK.

I have no idea why those driven plates are sold as a replacement when they have much less frictional area, and cannot possibly do the same job, even if clamping force is higher. Get two new ones from one of our known suppliers here, a new crank pilot bearing, a new ball cup, new ball if needed, and a new TO bearing if needed. I think Roger at 928'sRus has rebuilt TO bearings, as new are NLA.

Keep asking questions here as you go, so that every step is in the right direction.

4drgl

Thanks i appreciate the help. I have a laundry list of parts for roger already! Well u win some u lose some! Its not too often u can just strip a 928 at the salvage yard anyway and get a nearly complete swap for less than a wrecked car!

Dave928S

You've still got a bargain on the parts you got.

It's worth getting right ... because you don't want to be pulling it apart again. If you need any more pics of factory original parts, or measurements to compare with what you have just holler.

Just noticed in your previous post that there were washers between the PP and the flywheel ... which there shouldn't be. No wonder the plates are blued ... probably ignorant solution to poor adjustment of IP or dimensions being wrong and causing lockup.