Update with video - So it wasn't the shift coupler?????
07-02-2012, 10:26 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Update with video - So it wasn't the shift coupler?????
****Update July 3rd 10PM here is a video link to my shifter linkage. Just drove around and couldn't get it to do the same thing, though now that I have access I'll see what it does when engaged.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uu3wdepyy...-13-53_399.mp4
I replaced the coupler tonight, no change to the shifting. It is a bit tigher.
I'm going to check the fluid level (was changed 10k miles or 2 years ago). It slides straight forward clutch in or out. Like it misses the engagement point completely. If I get it back to the original position I pulled it out of and let the clutch out and slide it slightly forward to the engagement point it shifts fine.
Not sure what the deal is. I'll check the fluid and start looking at the stick connections. When I had the shaft disconnected it would go in/out of gear with a good clunk like it is supposed to. There must be slop somewhere just need to find it.
As a side note I see that my reverse lights won't go on, but it is definitely in gear. Guessing its a coincidence in timing.
Anyway here is the new coupler (found it for $55 bmaparts and yes it in genuine). The set (grub) screw is pointed and it fits into a hole in the shaft coming from the gearbox. And the last is the old coupler worn in after 25 years of use, but not that much more play than the new one.
The screw is M8 threaded with a 4mm hex socket. I installed it into the new coupler with locktite. And yes I slit the boot and closed it back up with a couple zip ties. All in all about 1-1/2 hour of work. Though I did have my hands on it before to check it in the first place.
I'm going to add delrin bushings to the old one and keep it for later.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uu3wdepyy...-13-53_399.mp4
I replaced the coupler tonight, no change to the shifting. It is a bit tigher.
I'm going to check the fluid level (was changed 10k miles or 2 years ago). It slides straight forward clutch in or out. Like it misses the engagement point completely. If I get it back to the original position I pulled it out of and let the clutch out and slide it slightly forward to the engagement point it shifts fine.
Not sure what the deal is. I'll check the fluid and start looking at the stick connections. When I had the shaft disconnected it would go in/out of gear with a good clunk like it is supposed to. There must be slop somewhere just need to find it.
As a side note I see that my reverse lights won't go on, but it is definitely in gear. Guessing its a coincidence in timing.
Anyway here is the new coupler (found it for $55 bmaparts and yes it in genuine). The set (grub) screw is pointed and it fits into a hole in the shaft coming from the gearbox. And the last is the old coupler worn in after 25 years of use, but not that much more play than the new one.
The screw is M8 threaded with a 4mm hex socket. I installed it into the new coupler with locktite. And yes I slit the boot and closed it back up with a couple zip ties. All in all about 1-1/2 hour of work. Though I did have my hands on it before to check it in the first place.
I'm going to add delrin bushings to the old one and keep it for later.
Last edited by hinchcliffe; 07-03-2012 at 11:21 PM.
07-03-2012, 06:49 AM
#5
Craic Head
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Bushings in the system (which are wear items) are:
Rear shift coupling- you replaced that
Forward shift ball cup
Release arm ball cup
Bushings in the shifter assembly itself.
Unless I have these first two backward the symptoms of them going bad are:
1. Too much front-to-back play?completely free shifter (clearly not in any pattern): Forward shift ball cup, bushing is worn or gone, cup may pop off. You can zip tie the rod down in an emergency to get home.
2. Too much side-do-side play: rear shift coupler- you can use a coat hanger or somehow keep it from coming apart in an emergency but it's not going to get tighter unless the bushings are replaced.
3. Generally sloppy/loose shifting, low RPM rattle from engine area: Release arm ball cup and/or shifter bushings. This is not so much a 'failure mode' in that I don't think it prohibits shifting, it just makes it sloppy.
Rear shift coupling- you replaced that
Forward shift ball cup
Release arm ball cup
Bushings in the shifter assembly itself.
Unless I have these first two backward the symptoms of them going bad are:
1. Too much front-to-back play?completely free shifter (clearly not in any pattern): Forward shift ball cup, bushing is worn or gone, cup may pop off. You can zip tie the rod down in an emergency to get home.
2. Too much side-do-side play: rear shift coupler- you can use a coat hanger or somehow keep it from coming apart in an emergency but it's not going to get tighter unless the bushings are replaced.
3. Generally sloppy/loose shifting, low RPM rattle from engine area: Release arm ball cup and/or shifter bushings. This is not so much a 'failure mode' in that I don't think it prohibits shifting, it just makes it sloppy.
07-03-2012, 07:57 AM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
No, the ball cup is connected tightly. If it was bad the shift leveler would go everywhere. Mine will only go straight forward/backward it will not go side to side.
Something is sliding around, I just don't know what. I tried getting it to do it when I wan underneath with the coupler only connected to the transmission and it was always a crisp clunk sound for gears.
I'm going to check the fluid level and pull apart the center console to see what I can.
Something is sliding around, I just don't know what. I tried getting it to do it when I wan underneath with the coupler only connected to the transmission and it was always a crisp clunk sound for gears.
I'm going to check the fluid level and pull apart the center console to see what I can.
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07-03-2012, 10:45 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
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You shouldn't have to pull apart the center console, per se. All you can get to from up top is inside the shifter box, which is accessible by pulling the ****, the boot, the snap-in shifter frame (with the foam strips that always come loose), and the rubber inner seal.
Once you have those pieces out (which should take about 5 minutes), you can see if anything's broken or out of place in the shift lever itself. There are some small plastic bushings where the lever connects to the front and rear rods; and these are a common wear item, but I don't think they'd account for the behavior you are describing.
From inside the shifter box, you should also see that the front rod doesn't move forward or backward at all. It should only twist around its axis.
Edit: BTW, I am a bit suspicious of the situation "up front" in the shift linkage, if you were able to swap the rear coupler without having to undo the connections in the shifter box. When I did the S4 rear coupler, I definitely needed to disconnect the shifter in the box to have enough room to push the rod forwards out of the coupler.
Once you have those pieces out (which should take about 5 minutes), you can see if anything's broken or out of place in the shift lever itself. There are some small plastic bushings where the lever connects to the front and rear rods; and these are a common wear item, but I don't think they'd account for the behavior you are describing.
From inside the shifter box, you should also see that the front rod doesn't move forward or backward at all. It should only twist around its axis.
Edit: BTW, I am a bit suspicious of the situation "up front" in the shift linkage, if you were able to swap the rear coupler without having to undo the connections in the shifter box. When I did the S4 rear coupler, I definitely needed to disconnect the shifter in the box to have enough room to push the rod forwards out of the coupler.
07-03-2012, 02:03 PM
#9
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There is another failure point...
There is a support bearing on the front shift rod, just forward of the shift lever. It is a plastic ring in a rubber support. Changing it properly requires dropping the torque tube.
I had reasonably good results from a jury-rig repair. Working from inside the shift lever housing, I pushed the foam insulation back enough to see the rubber support and the crumbled plastic ring bits. I slit (on a diagonal) a short piece of plastic pipe that was a good fit over the shift rod. Lubricated the shift rod and inside of the pipe, then worked the slit pipe over the rod. Cleaned the lube from the rubber support and outside of the pipe, and glued the pipe to the rubber support.
The repair reduced the slop in the front shift rod and improved the shift feel.
There is a support bearing on the front shift rod, just forward of the shift lever. It is a plastic ring in a rubber support. Changing it properly requires dropping the torque tube.
I had reasonably good results from a jury-rig repair. Working from inside the shift lever housing, I pushed the foam insulation back enough to see the rubber support and the crumbled plastic ring bits. I slit (on a diagonal) a short piece of plastic pipe that was a good fit over the shift rod. Lubricated the shift rod and inside of the pipe, then worked the slit pipe over the rod. Cleaned the lube from the rubber support and outside of the pipe, and glued the pipe to the rubber support.
The repair reduced the slop in the front shift rod and improved the shift feel.
07-03-2012, 02:41 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Not sure why you started a new thread on this, your first one had a better description of the symptoms.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ust-arose.html
If this is still the issue, your problem is in one of three places: front ball/cup came apart; rear coupler is slipping on splined shaft; or, heaven forbid, an internal transmission problem.
Does the scenario exist while stationary or only when moving? This doesn’t narrow the possible cause but does affect the method of trouble shooting.
If it can be reproduced while stationary, get under the car and look / feel for what is not moving properly.
If it only occurs while moving, remove the shift boots and observe the front shaft.
If the front rod is normal, mount a video camera pointed at the rear shaft coupler and record its movement during the abnormality.
If neither of these expose the cause, then you may need to have a look inside the transmission.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ust-arose.html
If this is still the issue, your problem is in one of three places: front ball/cup came apart; rear coupler is slipping on splined shaft; or, heaven forbid, an internal transmission problem.
Does the scenario exist while stationary or only when moving? This doesn’t narrow the possible cause but does affect the method of trouble shooting.
If it can be reproduced while stationary, get under the car and look / feel for what is not moving properly.
If it only occurs while moving, remove the shift boots and observe the front shaft.
If the front rod is normal, mount a video camera pointed at the rear shaft coupler and record its movement during the abnormality.
If neither of these expose the cause, then you may need to have a look inside the transmission.
Last edited by depami; 07-03-2012 at 03:22 PM.
07-03-2012, 03:04 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
Started a new thread to refresh and get more exposure. Besides, I forgot to as I was in a hurry last night when I wrote this one......
Yes, just noticed yesterday that it happens when stationary. Trying to get a helper is the hard part for checking, though I may have some help tonight.
Yes, just noticed yesterday that it happens when stationary. Trying to get a helper is the hard part for checking, though I may have some help tonight.
07-04-2012, 01:03 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is correct. The front rod is moving for and aft and should only be twisting.
The ball and cup should swivel but not allow front to back movement.
The front rod is an “anchor” to provide leverage for the shifter to move the transmission shaft.
The shift lever “pivots” on the front rod pin and only “moves” the rear shift rod.
The swivel of the ball and cup make possible the side to side movement for R/1, 2/3, 4/5 “lane" selection.
If the front rod moves for and aft, the transmission could still be in gear which would prohibit side to side movement.
At 20~25 and 40~45 seconds you have an excellent view of the problem. The front "anchor" rod is moving and the rear "shift" rod is not.
That is correct. The front rod is moving for and aft and should only be twisting.
The ball and cup should swivel but not allow front to back movement.
The front rod is an “anchor” to provide leverage for the shifter to move the transmission shaft.
The shift lever “pivots” on the front rod pin and only “moves” the rear shift rod.
The swivel of the ball and cup make possible the side to side movement for R/1, 2/3, 4/5 “lane" selection.
If the front rod moves for and aft, the transmission could still be in gear which would prohibit side to side movement.
At 20~25 and 40~45 seconds you have an excellent view of the problem. The front "anchor" rod is moving and the rear "shift" rod is not.
Last edited by depami; 07-04-2012 at 01:38 AM.
07-04-2012, 11:07 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Curt,
In the other thread on this you asked about the "best shifter" itself. You moved the one from Colin (Lizard) on my car at the Glen a couple of weeks ago. It is incredibly precise, and where I used to get 5th instead of 3rd on a couple of occasions a day at the track, I never missed a single shift in the two days there. I LOVE that shifter for it's precision.
Gary-
In the other thread on this you asked about the "best shifter" itself. You moved the one from Colin (Lizard) on my car at the Glen a couple of weeks ago. It is incredibly precise, and where I used to get 5th instead of 3rd on a couple of occasions a day at the track, I never missed a single shift in the two days there. I LOVE that shifter for it's precision.
Gary-