Starting Issue: Need Help
09-03-2012, 09:41 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ok, I was told over on Pelican Parts to send my injectors to Witchhunter. I looked on their website and it says they do not service CIS injectors. I'm afraid I still do not know all the variants of the 928 injection system. As a 1984 US Auto, what do I have? I've heard I have the LH-Jetronic system, but I don't get the differences and where "CIS" comes in.
*EDIT*
Did some research and found that CIS is only for K-Jetronic, which is a continuous feed of fuel via copper injectors. The LH is an electronically controlled injection system, so my injectors are fine to send to Witchhunter, lol.
*RE-EDIT*
Turns out the LH-Jet was on the Euro 84, not the US 84, which uses L-Jet
*EDIT*
Did some research and found that CIS is only for K-Jetronic, which is a continuous feed of fuel via copper injectors. The LH is an electronically controlled injection system, so my injectors are fine to send to Witchhunter, lol.
*RE-EDIT*
Turns out the LH-Jet was on the Euro 84, not the US 84, which uses L-Jet
Last edited by JohnnyV; 09-04-2012 at 12:23 AM. Reason: I didn't search well enough
09-09-2012, 10:13 PM
#18
Instructor
Thread Starter
UPDATE:
- Removed fuel rails and injectors. They look bad
The hoses are all dry rotting and they are filthy. I am going to send them to Witchhunter to see what they say since I'm not sure if those hoses are even replaceable along with the reconditioning they do. If not, I guess I'm going to have to save for new injectors. Here are some pics:
-I removed the temp sensors for testing and I realized the connector on the one farthest back has a resistor on it.. is this normal?
-I also noticed that two ports on my throttle body are capped off. My best guess is these are coolant line ports and the PO did a bypass? Still, looks shoddy and confuses me..
-My pin connector looks in decent shape. I don't see any problems here:
-I removed the shrouds for the timing belt to check it and see if it really was new like the PO said. Seems like he wasn't lying..unless I am judging incorrectly?
-When taking off the timing belt cover on the passenger side, I saw this connector just hanging there. Not sure where it goes or if it was even connected to begin with. Anyone recognize it?
- Removed fuel rails and injectors. They look bad
The hoses are all dry rotting and they are filthy. I am going to send them to Witchhunter to see what they say since I'm not sure if those hoses are even replaceable along with the reconditioning they do. If not, I guess I'm going to have to save for new injectors. Here are some pics:-I removed the temp sensors for testing and I realized the connector on the one farthest back has a resistor on it.. is this normal?
-I also noticed that two ports on my throttle body are capped off. My best guess is these are coolant line ports and the PO did a bypass? Still, looks shoddy and confuses me..
-My pin connector looks in decent shape. I don't see any problems here:
-I removed the shrouds for the timing belt to check it and see if it really was new like the PO said. Seems like he wasn't lying..unless I am judging incorrectly?
-When taking off the timing belt cover on the passenger side, I saw this connector just hanging there. Not sure where it goes or if it was even connected to begin with. Anyone recognize it?
09-09-2012, 10:21 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Replace the thermotime switch.
There are 8 short (50mm) segments of fuel line needed for the injectors and some injection hose clamps. Also there are a series of other fuel hoses that need desparately to be replaced. Hose needs to be high pressure variety 30 R 9.
I wouldn't drive again until your car has the new hoses.
There are 8 short (50mm) segments of fuel line needed for the injectors and some injection hose clamps. Also there are a series of other fuel hoses that need desparately to be replaced. Hose needs to be high pressure variety 30 R 9.
I wouldn't drive again until your car has the new hoses.
09-09-2012, 10:31 PM
#20
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ok, which one is that. Here are the three:
The first was the only one not pointing up, it was the one on the front of the engine. The second one is one of the ones pointing up, located further from the engine. The third is the other one that points up, closer to the engine..
The first was the only one not pointing up, it was the one on the front of the engine. The second one is one of the ones pointing up, located further from the engine. The third is the other one that points up, closer to the engine..
09-09-2012, 10:35 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
That's it, the one that runs axially with crank. See the picture I posted above, edit.
You can't check the ignition relay. Try jumpering it with a three-ended wire.
You can't check the ignition relay. Try jumpering it with a three-ended wire.
09-09-2012, 11:30 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor
The single black connector looks like the AC compressor clutch power wire.
The resistor looks like a kluge to try to change the fuel/air ratio.
The resistor looks like a kluge to try to change the fuel/air ratio.
09-10-2012, 01:45 AM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks, Wally. I'll look into that.
So I looked into Witchhunter and they have instructions on removing the fuel injector hoses, and I found writeups on replacing those hoses as well. Good news! Since my car was running fine not even two months ago, the probability that they can be successfully serviced by Witchhunter and given new hoses is very high. They will be sent out this week for sure.
So I looked into Witchhunter and they have instructions on removing the fuel injector hoses, and I found writeups on replacing those hoses as well. Good news! Since my car was running fine not even two months ago, the probability that they can be successfully serviced by Witchhunter and given new hoses is very high. They will be sent out this week for sure.
09-10-2012, 02:23 AM
#25
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Hello 928'ers
For about two months now my 928 has been sitting in front of my house, motionless. It all started when one day things were fine and I turned it off to go to class, then when I came back, it wouldn't start. It cranked over, but wouldn't fire. Since then, here is what I have done:
-New fuel filter (AdvanceAuto)
-New fuel pump (928Intl)
-New fuel line from pump to filter since mine had a kink in it (928Intl)
-Checked fuel pump relay and even did the jumper trick
-Checked injector relay
-Cleaned ground points (The ones I could get to without a lift)
-New battery
-Took apart upper intake and cleaned everything
-Took out the fuel level sensor and looked inside at the in-tank filter. Seemed fine.
At this point I don't think it's the fuel system since it will sometimes start and idle for about 3 minutes, and then die. After that initial start, it will start for a second or two and die, almost as if it only tries to stay on when the car is cold. I looked at my throttle body and my throttle cable is a little loose, but I doubt that has anything to do with it. Also, there are two sensors by the cables; one that gets pushed when the throttle is full open, and another that seems to get pushed at closed throttle. They look like little gates with arms that get pushed down to hit a button. Anyway, the one that I'm assuming gets pushed on closed throttle isn't being depressed far enough down to hear that "click" of the button push..I don't know if that has anything to do with my issues, but I figure I'll mention it.
I know I need air/fuel/spark for startup, and I am pretty sure fuel is fine at this point, as well as spark, so my suspicions are on the air part of the equation.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I hate to see my car just sit there
For about two months now my 928 has been sitting in front of my house, motionless. It all started when one day things were fine and I turned it off to go to class, then when I came back, it wouldn't start. It cranked over, but wouldn't fire. Since then, here is what I have done:
-New fuel filter (AdvanceAuto)
-New fuel pump (928Intl)
-New fuel line from pump to filter since mine had a kink in it (928Intl)
-Checked fuel pump relay and even did the jumper trick
-Checked injector relay
-Cleaned ground points (The ones I could get to without a lift)
-New battery
-Took apart upper intake and cleaned everything
-Took out the fuel level sensor and looked inside at the in-tank filter. Seemed fine.
At this point I don't think it's the fuel system since it will sometimes start and idle for about 3 minutes, and then die. After that initial start, it will start for a second or two and die, almost as if it only tries to stay on when the car is cold. I looked at my throttle body and my throttle cable is a little loose, but I doubt that has anything to do with it. Also, there are two sensors by the cables; one that gets pushed when the throttle is full open, and another that seems to get pushed at closed throttle. They look like little gates with arms that get pushed down to hit a button. Anyway, the one that I'm assuming gets pushed on closed throttle isn't being depressed far enough down to hear that "click" of the button push..I don't know if that has anything to do with my issues, but I figure I'll mention it.
I know I need air/fuel/spark for startup, and I am pretty sure fuel is fine at this point, as well as spark, so my suspicions are on the air part of the equation.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I hate to see my car just sit there
Mine would not start due to that little thing
10-03-2012, 05:40 PM
#26
Instructor
Thread Starter
Got my injectors back from WitchHunter today. I highly recommend them. I dealt with their second shop in Kansas. All of the injectors have new filters, gaskets, caps, and two of them had cracked insulators which were replaced. End result is that all 8 are perfectly matched and flow like new 
I can now check off one more thing from my list of culprits.
I can now check off one more thing from my list of culprits.
10-05-2012, 09:31 PM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ok, spent a lot of time of the car today. Here is the list of what was done:
-Reinstalled injectors onto rails and then onto car
-Cleaned injector harness ground
-Replaced two large vac plugs on passenger side of throttle body (one had a huge tear)
-Replaced small vac line connection to throttle body (hose had a cut right where it met the TB)
-Removed strut tower brace (for stripping and polishing)
-Reinstalled Temp II sensor, Thermotime sensor, and Temp sensor (cleaned them)
-Visually went over every vac line I could see, found no more issues
I jumpered the fuel pump relay so I could fill the rails and lines with fuel first. Once that ran for a bit, I removed the jumper, replaced the relay and gave it a shot.
Unfortunately, the results are the same. The car hesitated for a bit (shaking off the cobwebs from sitting for about a month), then started. It stayed on for about a minute or two(ran pretty well), and then choked up and died. I tried it again, started for a second, then died. After this, it just cranks with no start. Also,if I press the gas pedal at any time while its running, it chokes and dies. If I let the car cool for a while, and try again, it starts then dies quickly after.
So, my next step is to order a new thermotime sensor, temp ii sensor, and green distributor wire. I'm also going to order a new battery ground strap since I peeled back the insulation and it looks like this:
I really thought it was going to stay on after fixing those vac leaks and getting my injectors serviced. Sucks that it's still fighting me, but I guess I can check a few more things off the list of suspects..
-Reinstalled injectors onto rails and then onto car
-Cleaned injector harness ground
-Replaced two large vac plugs on passenger side of throttle body (one had a huge tear)
-Replaced small vac line connection to throttle body (hose had a cut right where it met the TB)
-Removed strut tower brace (for stripping and polishing)
-Reinstalled Temp II sensor, Thermotime sensor, and Temp sensor (cleaned them)
-Visually went over every vac line I could see, found no more issues
I jumpered the fuel pump relay so I could fill the rails and lines with fuel first. Once that ran for a bit, I removed the jumper, replaced the relay and gave it a shot.
Unfortunately, the results are the same. The car hesitated for a bit (shaking off the cobwebs from sitting for about a month), then started. It stayed on for about a minute or two(ran pretty well), and then choked up and died. I tried it again, started for a second, then died. After this, it just cranks with no start. Also,if I press the gas pedal at any time while its running, it chokes and dies. If I let the car cool for a while, and try again, it starts then dies quickly after.
So, my next step is to order a new thermotime sensor, temp ii sensor, and green distributor wire. I'm also going to order a new battery ground strap since I peeled back the insulation and it looks like this:
I really thought it was going to stay on after fixing those vac leaks and getting my injectors serviced. Sucks that it's still fighting me, but I guess I can check a few more things off the list of suspects..
10-11-2012, 08:54 PM
#30
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ok fellas, my new sensors came in today and of course they sent the wrong one for the thermo switch. However, temp II and the temp gauge sensor were the right ones. I replaced those two and I also installed the new ground strap for the battery.
I tried to start it and same as before, it would try, start and then die. I then wedged the barn door open and tried again. It started right up and ran like dog $hit, however, it did not die. It even allowed me to rev it up. Once I got off the gas and let the rpms settle, it ran like it was misfiring, but it ran. I then removed the wedge I had in the barn door and the car died almost immediately. I disconnected the AFM completely and tried to start her up. She starts every time and runs horribly, but doesn't die. Again, when it's running, it lets me rev it up without dying, but runs BAD.
I also noticed my dash voltage gauge is reading much more stable with the new ground strap and my courtesy lights on the doors are way brighter.
PROGRESS!! I'm now going to get the correct thermo switch sent to me, as well as look into replacing my AFM. I'm assuming the running like crap is normal with a disconnected/dead AFM.
Seems as if those sensors were never the issue, but I'm glad I have new units regardless.
I'll update once I get my AFM situation resolved.
I tried to start it and same as before, it would try, start and then die. I then wedged the barn door open and tried again. It started right up and ran like dog $hit, however, it did not die. It even allowed me to rev it up. Once I got off the gas and let the rpms settle, it ran like it was misfiring, but it ran. I then removed the wedge I had in the barn door and the car died almost immediately. I disconnected the AFM completely and tried to start her up. She starts every time and runs horribly, but doesn't die. Again, when it's running, it lets me rev it up without dying, but runs BAD.
I also noticed my dash voltage gauge is reading much more stable with the new ground strap and my courtesy lights on the doors are way brighter.
PROGRESS!! I'm now going to get the correct thermo switch sent to me, as well as look into replacing my AFM. I'm assuming the running like crap is normal with a disconnected/dead AFM.
Seems as if those sensors were never the issue, but I'm glad I have new units regardless.
I'll update once I get my AFM situation resolved.