Quit making excuses and come to a DE
10-09-2012, 08:42 PM
#91
Rennlist Member
Jim Bailey,
I've met you, and I met Courtshark's instructor. He makes you look svelt!!!
My sincerest congratulations to Courtshark. Must have had a great time showing his instructor how well he can drive. Got signed off at the end of the second day and went out for his first SOLO Run. I'll never forget when I first had that experience. Great Job Mike,
Gary--
I've met you, and I met Courtshark's instructor. He makes you look svelt!!!
My sincerest congratulations to Courtshark. Must have had a great time showing his instructor how well he can drive. Got signed off at the end of the second day and went out for his first SOLO Run. I'll never forget when I first had that experience. Great Job Mike,
Gary--
10-10-2012, 01:25 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
Wow, thanks Gary! I must say, though, that I wish said session didn't end with a meatball! I was truly shocked to have been given the solo chance in the first place, so I will take what I can get. And many thanks, Curt, for, well, everything! Including pulling those great pics. I'll need to see what others he has.
Shark Pilot's Log, DE Day 2:
Totally different weather to start the day, which then turned into a mixed bag for the first run session (the reds, aka the wreckers!
). Chilly, but not nearly as cold as day 1, and everyone was expecting sun and 60 degree temps. Around 8 AM, a patch of very light rain rolled in. Fortunately it rolled out during the run group right before mine, and the track was dry by the time I was on it.
I felt incredibly confident from the get-go day 2; totally unlike day 1! My instructor was far more quiet on day 2, mostly saying things like "attaboy" and "perfect."
I was not timing myself (though the videos, once processed, will reveal some times! I've only watched a couple of them, as the files are enormous and killing my computer; will post some tomorrow). But I definitely felt faster; the fastest lap I've watched of myself so far was a 2:39. Not superstar fast, but respectable. I also thoroughly enjoyed not lifting at all through the esses, enabling me to carry crazy speed into the backstraight.
Unfortunately, the increase in ambient temps revealed that my stock thermostat can't handle the increased demand of HPDE driving. I'd been meaning to swap in a lower temp one anyway; this seals it. I also developed a very minor oil leak during the second day, likely a valve cover gasket leak.
As suggested above, driving with my instructor was a joy on day 2. After one particularly good session, he pulled me aside and taught me about "vector steering," and prefaced that by saying he normally wouldn't even bother mentioning it to most white run group students, let alone a greenie like me. Anyway, he briefed me on it, and without him suggesting it, I tried it out in the toe of the boot, and nailed it! That likely sealed the deal for being offered a solo run. I'm assuming that doesn't get offered to newbies at their first DE very often!
On the solo run, minus the 400+ lbs (my instructor told me his exact weight when explaining how the car will feel very different without him in it! He is pictured below in his 911 cabrio), the car really came alive. I was well over 120 mph on the backstraight. And this, I think is what caused me to earn the meatball. The car was running warm but not overheating. But I think some coolant blew out, and hit the exhaust in hard turns, causing some white smoke to puff from the car. I was meatballed for "tire rub," which made zero sense given the car's recent weight loss. By the time I could explain what I thought it was, the checkered flag was out, and the weekend was over. Not the best finish, but far from the worst. And I'm eager to get back out for another one.
To those even contemplating trying a DE, just do it. There were old ladies in putter putt putt 944s out there (holding us up, but still, they were out there). Our cars are built for this; especially for Watkins Glen.
Shark Pilot's Log, DE Day 2:
Totally different weather to start the day, which then turned into a mixed bag for the first run session (the reds, aka the wreckers!
). Chilly, but not nearly as cold as day 1, and everyone was expecting sun and 60 degree temps. Around 8 AM, a patch of very light rain rolled in. Fortunately it rolled out during the run group right before mine, and the track was dry by the time I was on it.I felt incredibly confident from the get-go day 2; totally unlike day 1! My instructor was far more quiet on day 2, mostly saying things like "attaboy" and "perfect."
I was not timing myself (though the videos, once processed, will reveal some times! I've only watched a couple of them, as the files are enormous and killing my computer; will post some tomorrow). But I definitely felt faster; the fastest lap I've watched of myself so far was a 2:39. Not superstar fast, but respectable. I also thoroughly enjoyed not lifting at all through the esses, enabling me to carry crazy speed into the backstraight.Unfortunately, the increase in ambient temps revealed that my stock thermostat can't handle the increased demand of HPDE driving. I'd been meaning to swap in a lower temp one anyway; this seals it. I also developed a very minor oil leak during the second day, likely a valve cover gasket leak.
As suggested above, driving with my instructor was a joy on day 2. After one particularly good session, he pulled me aside and taught me about "vector steering," and prefaced that by saying he normally wouldn't even bother mentioning it to most white run group students, let alone a greenie like me. Anyway, he briefed me on it, and without him suggesting it, I tried it out in the toe of the boot, and nailed it! That likely sealed the deal for being offered a solo run. I'm assuming that doesn't get offered to newbies at their first DE very often!
On the solo run, minus the 400+ lbs (my instructor told me his exact weight when explaining how the car will feel very different without him in it! He is pictured below in his 911 cabrio), the car really came alive. I was well over 120 mph on the backstraight. And this, I think is what caused me to earn the meatball. The car was running warm but not overheating. But I think some coolant blew out, and hit the exhaust in hard turns, causing some white smoke to puff from the car. I was meatballed for "tire rub," which made zero sense given the car's recent weight loss. By the time I could explain what I thought it was, the checkered flag was out, and the weekend was over. Not the best finish, but far from the worst. And I'm eager to get back out for another one.
To those even contemplating trying a DE, just do it. There were old ladies in putter putt putt 944s out there (holding us up, but still, they were out there). Our cars are built for this; especially for Watkins Glen.
Last edited by Courtshark; 10-10-2012 at 09:01 AM.
10-10-2012, 01:32 AM
#93
Race Director
a couple more hooked on "track crack"....
I doubt its your T-stat causing the overheating....my guess is a slightly clogged radiator or poor airflow... what position are your cooling flaps? How old is the radiator? Are the fans working correctly?
I doubt its your T-stat causing the overheating....my guess is a slightly clogged radiator or poor airflow... what position are your cooling flaps? How old is the radiator? Are the fans working correctly?
10-10-2012, 07:54 AM
#95
Drifting
Thread Starter
See told you it would be fun. Took me two events to get soloed congrats. But the more instructors you have the more experiences you get from different folks perspective.
Glad day two went a bit better I hear, wish I made it back down. But I'll be back come May with new/older shocks thanks Gary. Courtshark, even a five old birthday at the track would be fun as usually my 5year old boy and 3-1/2 year old boy/girl twins love it.
Glad day two went a bit better I hear, wish I made it back down. But I'll be back come May with new/older shocks thanks Gary. Courtshark, even a five old birthday at the track would be fun as usually my 5year old boy and 3-1/2 year old boy/girl twins love it.
10-10-2012, 08:22 AM
#97
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
...and then there were three
I was up there and had a great time as well, for the first two days anyway. Unfortunately due to the fact that my car has more power than stock but still has the stock brake setup, I ended up scrubbing the second day of driving entirely.
I had a great time and everyone there was amazingly helpful. Gary, Ed and Curt (and everyone else, really) were extremely helpful trying to make the best of it for me and Mike as the noobs of the group.
The first day was the 'Thunder road' ride where you get to tour the course in a street car (pickup truck or SUV) driven by an instructor so you get a low speed, no pressure view of the course. This was Sunday evening and they had it scheduled so we could do that and then get our 'newbie chat' and final tech so Monday morning wasn't so crazy.
Monday morning was crazy.
There's a lot to learn and a lot going on. My instructor was a newly minted instructor this year (Bert Xander) and he was awesome. Extremely patient with my inability to see the line or even (for the first run or two) to know which turn was coming up next. If you ever get the chance to have him as your instructor, you should jump at it.
Unfortunately for me the very first time I got on the track I found out two things: 1. (which I expected) This car can do things I am not even remotely able to deal with in real time and 2. (which I didn't expect) Although my car's stock braking configuration is sufficient on any road in America, it took a very short time on the track to determine that this was NOT going to cut it on a track.
On a cool fall day (50deg. F) with Porken's v4.0 chips recently installed I can tell you that I could have run entire laps in 3rd or 4th gear without shifting (tried both, just to see) because the torque kicks in early and goes all the way up. My car was pulling like a monster and has never run better. I was hitting 110 EARLY on the straights coming out of the turns. I had to lift midway through the straight and coast (I know
) because I wasn't confident that my brakes were going to be able to do the job at the other end.
On the morning of the second day Gary and Ed hooked me up with the tools and fluid I needed to do a quick brake flush and fill with some Super Blue in case the fluid was the problem. Unfortunately it wasn't the case and although they all wanted to help me try to figure it out I didn't want to kill everyone else's day having them work on my car which clearly (to me) wasn't properly set up to handle the kind of repetitive high speed braking I was going to need to be doing to continue to improve.
Sorry about bailing on the trip early everyone. I really did enjoy myself, it was just not meant to be.
I had a great time and everyone there was amazingly helpful. Gary, Ed and Curt (and everyone else, really) were extremely helpful trying to make the best of it for me and Mike as the noobs of the group.
The first day was the 'Thunder road' ride where you get to tour the course in a street car (pickup truck or SUV) driven by an instructor so you get a low speed, no pressure view of the course. This was Sunday evening and they had it scheduled so we could do that and then get our 'newbie chat' and final tech so Monday morning wasn't so crazy.
Monday morning was crazy.
There's a lot to learn and a lot going on. My instructor was a newly minted instructor this year (Bert Xander) and he was awesome. Extremely patient with my inability to see the line or even (for the first run or two) to know which turn was coming up next. If you ever get the chance to have him as your instructor, you should jump at it.
Unfortunately for me the very first time I got on the track I found out two things: 1. (which I expected) This car can do things I am not even remotely able to deal with in real time and 2. (which I didn't expect) Although my car's stock braking configuration is sufficient on any road in America, it took a very short time on the track to determine that this was NOT going to cut it on a track.
On a cool fall day (50deg. F) with Porken's v4.0 chips recently installed I can tell you that I could have run entire laps in 3rd or 4th gear without shifting (tried both, just to see) because the torque kicks in early and goes all the way up. My car was pulling like a monster and has never run better. I was hitting 110 EARLY on the straights coming out of the turns. I had to lift midway through the straight and coast (I know
) because I wasn't confident that my brakes were going to be able to do the job at the other end. On the morning of the second day Gary and Ed hooked me up with the tools and fluid I needed to do a quick brake flush and fill with some Super Blue in case the fluid was the problem. Unfortunately it wasn't the case and although they all wanted to help me try to figure it out I didn't want to kill everyone else's day having them work on my car which clearly (to me) wasn't properly set up to handle the kind of repetitive high speed braking I was going to need to be doing to continue to improve.
Sorry about bailing on the trip early everyone. I really did enjoy myself, it was just not meant to be.
10-10-2012, 11:18 AM
#98
Rennlist Member
Finally got a video to load. You Tube is crazy slow this morning! This was the first run of day 2, and it was a passing exercise. My partner was a very nice guy, but also far more experienced than I was. I completely smoked him through the esses, however, on our third pass (which I don't think is in this clip) to the point that I had to let off before the last ess apex to let him catch up!
Last edited by Courtshark; 10-10-2012 at 12:09 PM.
10-10-2012, 01:34 PM
#100
Rennlist Member
Second half of the passing session, which was supposed to be all passing, but when the green dropped, my partner checked out (we were supposed to ignore the flag). After a pit pass thru (not really sure why we did that), this has some fun action with a couple of Boxsters at the end; a third part of this video is still loading.
Last edited by Courtshark; 10-10-2012 at 03:16 PM.
10-10-2012, 03:12 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
Mike,
Regarding the overheating - probably not the thermostat as stated above. I have a 75 C thermostat, and yesterday my temp ran about 180. In the middle of the summer with mid 90's temps, and running for 30 minutes on and 30 minutes off - 6400 red line 4 times each lap, the gauge reaches the 2nd vertical mark (85 or 90?). Most likely poor air flow through the radiator. Bugs, debris, etc. may need to be cleaned out (best to remove the radiator and use high pressure air, followed by spraying a lot ostrong detergent such as Purple Power, then a water stream from ~60 PSI pressure.
IF that doesn't work, then the radiator may need an interior cleaning. Another possibility is there is too much clearance between the block and the water pump impeller.
GREAT JOB on Monday and Tuesday.
Gary--
Regarding the overheating - probably not the thermostat as stated above. I have a 75 C thermostat, and yesterday my temp ran about 180. In the middle of the summer with mid 90's temps, and running for 30 minutes on and 30 minutes off - 6400 red line 4 times each lap, the gauge reaches the 2nd vertical mark (85 or 90?). Most likely poor air flow through the radiator. Bugs, debris, etc. may need to be cleaned out (best to remove the radiator and use high pressure air, followed by spraying a lot ostrong detergent such as Purple Power, then a water stream from ~60 PSI pressure.
IF that doesn't work, then the radiator may need an interior cleaning. Another possibility is there is too much clearance between the block and the water pump impeller.
GREAT JOB on Monday and Tuesday.
Gary--
10-10-2012, 03:15 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
Thanks again Gary. I plan to get these projects underway ASAP with an eye towards maybe hitting VIR next month. I had changed the coolant recently, but not a full-on flush. If this had been a summer DE, I wouldn't have made it through the first day with this coolant situation!
10-10-2012, 04:17 PM
#103
Race Director
more on the cooling issue.........I'm guessing you are running the standard 50-50 water-coolant mix....this does NOT cool very well, but since you live somewhere quite cold its a good idea.... A bottle of water wetter should help quite a bit too
In the race cars we run only water and water wetter (or the amsoil version in my case)
In the race cars we run only water and water wetter (or the amsoil version in my case)
10-10-2012, 04:25 PM
#104
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I suspect the radiator/circulation more than anything. At 100+mph of 50-60 deg cool air flowing in there, there's no reason the car should have been hot. Whether it's water, coolant or any other combination, it should have been fine.
An as long as the T-stat is functioning and not blocked, it shouldn't matter at what temp it opened.
An as long as the T-stat is functioning and not blocked, it shouldn't matter at what temp it opened.
10-10-2012, 04:33 PM
#105
Drifting
Thread Starter
Also depends on the flaps in front opening or not. I ran ~3rd white line.
Mike how were your brakes on the way home?
Back when I ran my first DE with an '86 with stock '85-'86 pads I had no issues in two days. How was your pad thickness? Little more ductwork to the brake rotors helps that too. I'm assuming things are correct with the internal fin direction on the rotors up front. Pads 50% or less will also overheat. You shouldn't be going fast enough in the green run group to over cook unless you're braking too much.
Court, check your flap operation and try a full coolant change. I see the gills on the front nose of your car are slightly mis shapened, what's in there? Amazing how much stuff can build up between the rad and the A/C condensor.
Mike how were your brakes on the way home?
Back when I ran my first DE with an '86 with stock '85-'86 pads I had no issues in two days. How was your pad thickness? Little more ductwork to the brake rotors helps that too. I'm assuming things are correct with the internal fin direction on the rotors up front. Pads 50% or less will also overheat. You shouldn't be going fast enough in the green run group to over cook unless you're braking too much.
Court, check your flap operation and try a full coolant change. I see the gills on the front nose of your car are slightly mis shapened, what's in there? Amazing how much stuff can build up between the rad and the A/C condensor.