kelanel

Hey guys, Know anyone in tarzana I can contact? Just had electrical failure at a mcdonalds drive thru. Smoke came from the ce panel in passenger well. Took out the carpet and opened the panel. Headlights came up on their own and won't go back down. Checked slot 20/21 and the relay housing slipped right off (relay is stuck tight). Tried starting. It'll catch for a few seconds then die every time. I have a single wire jumper I can use. Any ideas a quick way to get her up?


Thanks,
Jonathan

Speedtoys

Pull the panel and see whats burnt up on the back..then go about fixing whats melted in any relays or terminal blocks.

..I would think.

Imo000

Tow it home and stop trying to start it untill you can remove the CE panel and see what heppened. Those relays are always very tight. Since the relay cover came off, you can squeez the relay contact by hand but, not untill you figure out what has been shorted first.

kelanel

Looks like it. Relay refuses to come out even with a flat head. Towing time :^/.

LUCKYJACKASS

I'm headed up to the valley after work to go to my girls house in Sherman Oaks. Let me know if I can help you out.....

kelanel

Just got home 10 mins ago with the flatbed and parked it.

Thanks for the offer lucky. Ill let you know if i need it.

When I started it after removing the housing, it didnt smoke anymore. I may be assuming that the headlight relay was the main cause of the short with the metal housing being so loose although I couldn't see any noticeable signs of melting or burning.

I did call up tom at 928intl and he recommended running 12v directly to the coil to see if itll keep running, if so the ballast resistor may be out. I didnt have any spare wire lying around in the car and the truck driver wouldnt let me use his jumper cables to test. I think I just need to pull out the panel at this point and see whats blown first just to be safe, and then start ordering/refreshing what I can. It'll be an interesting learning experience to say the least.

Maybe I can make an enzo pictorial out of this?

I'd like to thank everyone again who replied so quickly in my time of need before I accidentally set it on fire!

Jonathan.

kelanel

So got the panel out and the relay too (what a PITA). damage is across one specific brown wire that jumps between multiple relay slots (headlight motor relay, blower relay, rear defroster relay, fuel injector relay from what i could easily see.) is this worth trying to repair? What tools are recommended if it is? Included some pics.

Thanks,
Jonathan.

pcar928fan

Guys this is what the 928 Owners Club (www.928oc.org) Roadside Assistance Program is all about! I had him plugged in to folks very quickly...he was able to get a tow right away though so it all worked out, but if you join the 928OC this is the kind of thing that is really helpful... Of course this list is quite solid as well!! GOTTA LOVE the 928 community.

That is a common ground wire...the question is why did it short...

kelanel

yep! james was very helpful as well as everyone on here, i had answers in minutes along with plenty of contacts.

As far as the cause, i cant stress enough that the housing was dangling loose, i didnt have the air or anything else on at all besides the cd player. with this picture from the top, id think it would be very easy for the housing to pivot and contact these rail pieces on top of the picture. of course i could be wrong, but its quite strange that the headlights did popup before everything went to hell. the bottom view of the relay in my last post also looked suspicious. Also, after checking fuses. the only one blown was #19.

So the big question is still wether this is easily repairable or not. if it this main ground could be a pain, and i dont mind taking it to an electrician to replace the wiring if advised. i already have a multimeter handing and tested the leads at a couple of the damage points but couldnt get a closed circuit to the 2 protruding ground wires.

dr bob

The terminals for the CE panel are available from the VW store. Brown wire is brown wire. Sounds so easy...

I have the correct ratcheting crimper I think. The old terminals come out with a thin probe from the front to depress the little tab, then pull to the rear.



Anybody have a surplus CE panel for his 1984 car? Or one we could borrow to make tracing and rewiring a little easier?

Imo000

Someone was screwing aroud with that relay in the past. Those covers don't get loose on their own.

dr bob

I think the uninformed sometimes think they can just pull a relay out of the socket like you might do on 'murrikan cars. Not so in the 928. They are snug so they won't fall out at speed I guess. Hopefully Jonathan can get the cover back on this one and it works after the melted wiring is replaced.

-------

Can anyone think of why it wouldn't be a good idea to put a fuse between that ground wire network in the panel and the ground point on the body? Worst load is the relay coils, so something in the 5 Amp range should do the job for all the coils pulled in at the same time. Absent a fuse, smaller wire should be used relative to the supply wire, so only the ground wiring would melt if the situation reappears. Thoughts from the group?

kelanel

So after getting a hemostat and some dental size picks (thanks bob), I was able to get the female connector out and took it to both nearby VW and porsche dealerships, both of which claimed they wouldnt be able to get it.

Luckily after I got back, I found the part 111 971 960 here. This kit which should cover anything I need to replace from then on.

Im definitely all for in-line fuse when replacing this wiring to be safe. ill also be replacing the headlight relay and FI to be on the safe side since the most sinjing went from there.

Recommendations on gauge? It looks around 14-16 from eyeing the raw wire, is there a thread count I should do to confirm?

Thanks again guys,
Jonathan.

Imo000

That headlight relay is a $100 part.

dr bob

Jonathan,

Theory is that the ground wires should be just big enough to be able to carry the load from all the relay coils. So 16 ga should be plenty. The wiring should be small enough that it is the sacrificial part if/when there is a short to 30/B+ as you found. That 30 bus is not fused, so the ground wire was sacrificed.

If you decide to put a fuse in that wire, be sure to carefully document where you put it, like in a waterproof holder that's immediately adjacent to the ground point above the CE panel. If there's a way to duplicate the original wiring and make the fuseholder a removable add-on, that might be better. Just make sure you aren't adding a new, hidden, single point of failure.