17prospective buyer

How's it going guys?

I'm in the process of pulling the motor on my 87 S4 right now. My goal by pulling the motor is in essence to inspect/R&R all systems related to running the engine. I even made a plan for it. I figure it is the core of a 928 and my electrical system is solid. However, money to throw into it is the issue as i'm just a college student.

What i want to ask is...

With the motor pulled, what are the ABSOLUTELY crucial things that i need to attend to, and where should i put my money?

My goal in this project was also to improve HP and torque numbers through use of upgraded parts/DIY port and polish/increasing CR with thinner head gaskets if i can afford it. I know you all may scoff and think i'm some kid starting a project he'll never finish, but i AM going to do this, and i CAN do it. My only constriction in this project is money...

I know the obvious things: TB/WP/endplay...

I mean, what kind of money are we talking to get the engine running perfectly? Assuming no crank/bearing/rod work needs to be done?

Ducman82

oil pan gasket, motor mounts (if yours are bad)
how far are you planing on tearing it down?

17prospective buyer

Ducman82 Just down to a short block with crank and rods untouched. I know parts are tremendously expensive on our cars... i wish there was more aftermarket support/interest on them, that would surely open up doors to remanufactured/redesigned parts, and probably bring prices for common 928 parts down.

Ducman82

a good reseal and tune, and you should be good to go. headers, port/polish job, valve work...

namasgt

A complete head work with new US made non Porsche guides provided you bought the valve seals separately is about $1000. You don't need any port and polish, don't touch them...

Head gasket set with all the seals is about $500,
Cam chain pads is about $220 on both sides, new cam chain is about $33 each.
New head bolts is about $250 for both sides.

So you need to spend at least $2000 extra if you take the heads off. If you have never installed a cylinder head you may need to buy 1 or 2 extra head gaskets just in case, about $80 each.

The only performance you can add is to get it as close as possible to factory spec, and then add X-pipe. If the knock sensors have never been changed you may feel a big difference in performance when you get new ones. An old MAF could also reduce your performance. You can have it rebuilt for $200.

namasgt

Not touching the short block in terms of bearings and splitting the case, you should spend a good $5000-$7000 on the engine and while your at it stuff, your car is a manual so you might find out there is a need for a new pressure plate or clutch which will add more to the cost.
I spent a good $10,000 on parts rebuilding my engine. I did all the work my self except the head work.

Mrmerlin

how many miles are on the engine?
pulling it out to swap out HGs isnt a bad idea,
but otherwise do an intake refresh and swap out the OPG and cam end caps.
I dont think your gonna find thinner HGs,
also you want to make sure the heads have not already been cut or you will have to use the thicker gaskets. reference the WSM for head measurements and depending on miles you may not have to pull it out

17prospective buyer

Namasgt---thank you for a good estimate at a proper overhaul/R&R... that's money i don't have. How did you figure on getting an extra set incase i screw it up?? Last time i checked there's not really much to screw up on a head gasket replacement, clean the sealing surfaces, check for warpage, run thread chaser down bolt holes, orientate the HG, thread in head bolts finger tight then follow the WSM sequence and torquing stages.

Merlin---115 575 (186000KM) Miles are on the engine and from what i saw when i was down there doing all the standard engine removal procedures, looks as if it hasn't ever been apart. Coolant is orange (Dexcool is orange i think?), but full of sediment when i allowed it to settle. No rust whatsoever on the underside of the car. It has an obvious oil pan leak which is getting into the starter housing, and a left cam cover gasket leak. Slight carbon deposit on the block by rearmost left cylinder bank (gasket).

I am set on removing the engine even for light R&R. TBH i have no idea how you guys manage to do certain things while the engine is still in the car... I have very little patience for **** getting in my eyes while under there. So, while the engine is out it'll be a fantastic opportunity to R&R the starter terminals and grounds and just clean up the underside in general. Just don't have the money to do what i really want.

rgs944

I don't know why anyone with a limited budget would insist on building a brand new car. If your head gaskets are fine leave them alone. If you do have a head gasket problem that can be done in the car. I would get it high on jack stands and do all the usual things like mm, pg, intake, fuel lines, sensors, plug wires, grounds, ps hoses, ac hoses, rack boots, tb, wp and rollers. All of this can easily be done with out pulling the engine and anything past that is most likely a big loser in cost benefit on a good engine. As far as getting stuff in your eyes just put on some glasses.

rgs944

Also most of the crappy work underneath needs to be done regardless of whether you pull the engine or not. Actually you will probably spend more time laying on your back pulling the engine rather than just getting the needed stufff done.

Cosmo Kramer

+1 on not pulling it. 186K kms isn't that much for one of these engines. I would in engine repairs in this order:

1. Timing belt, tensioner, water pump and inspect gears (replace if necessary).
2. Intake refresh
3. Pull cam covers and inspect cam chains, tensioner and pads.
4. Oil pan gasket, motor mounts and any WYAIT items you find along the way (rack boots/bushings, tie rod ends ground strap etc.)

Mike Frye

+1. You can either do a complete engine tear down and rebuild or you can do what you can on a limited budget but IMO these two are mutually exclusive.

The 928 engine will go for 250k miles+ without needing anything down deep in the bowels of the engine if it's had regular oil changes and hasn't been under water. Biggest problem for a 25+ y/o car is lack of use. If it's been driven regularly and maintained fairly regularly you can keep doing the PM for a *relatively* modest amount.

Mrmerlin

you might be better off following Cosmos suggestions,
leave the engine in place and fix everything else ,
drain the block and flush with fresh water then drain it again,
wash out the radiator and put it back together.

Mike Frye

Stan,

Do you use just fresh water or distilled water? In my area I think my tap water has stuff in it that might react with the block so I use jugs of distilled.

What do you think? Does it make a difference?

fraggle

USE DISTILLED WATER!!!

My rebuild down to the short block was $4500. Only $220 was for machining the heads after they overheated. I put in new valve stem seals, R&R intake stuff, new injectors, powdercoat, and pan gasket. I spent 120hours on the project from first bolt to running again.

Unless you've got compression problems, leave the motor in.

Skip port/polish blah blah blah, this isn't an old chevy, and there are probably only 4 guys in the country that can do it right. If you start screwing with that stuff you've got to jump to sharktuning to get it right anyway, and that's another thousand bucks for the setup.

You'll amazed how strong a proper STOCK motor runs! I was.

Get your car running right, then dump the cash AFTER graduation!!! You'll have more money than you imagine after getting a real job. I did.