blown 87

I guess that depends on a lot of things, but I would try not to run a customer off.
But the flip side of this is that I have dealt with Jack as a customer and I know his daughter, so in this case, not a chance of me telling them to stick the rods anywhere, we would talk about why I would not use them with out a signed wavier.
It would be them taking a chance, not me.

DR

Wow, so just for the sake of keeping a customer...you would take their money, and build them a motor that you know will not last very many miles... as long as they sign a waiver??

You can try and kid these guys here on Rennlist, but I know you better, no matter what others say about you, you ain't that kind of a redneck....LOL

The point I was trying to make is life is usually never as "black and white" as it is presented, especially on an internet discussion forum...there are always those pesky "gray tones" running around in there somewhere fracking things up.

BTW, come see me, I got a fresh jar waiting on ya... IF you can handle it...Ha, Ha !! :-)

Cheers,

Dave

blown 87

Generally by the time I get through having our talk they will either not go through with that or they will go some place that tells them what they want to hear.
You know I have had some folks ask me to do some pretty silly things, with the wrong parts and it never seems to get the wrong parts.

blown 87

We were talking about coming to see you and your bride before the snow fall this year, so be careful what you wish for.

DR

Come on, you know you are always welcome...well, except for this coming weekend, we already have a prior engagement (family stuff).

Cheers,

Dave

robot808

DR, the big difference with your example and the OP's, is that yours is a customer asking to have something done incorrectly, the OP is asking to have his work done the right way.

DR

Nope, same thing...you are asking a professional to deviate from his business "standards and practices". It's his call if he feels comfortable doing it, or not, for whatever reason.

Just as a customer can ask for something out of the shop's normal procedures, the owner can also say no to such requests. Doesn't mean he is trying to run a customer off, or even being rude or wrong.

For all we know the Tire Shop owner doesn't even have a working torque wrench, or feels his staff is not trained to use anything but a torque stick on an impact. Whatever the reason for declining to do something "special" a customer asks for, that is for him to decide. In the end if something goes wrong..who's a$$ will be on the line??

When you ask a friend for a favor and they happen to say no one time after years of being a good friend...do you automatically un-friend them from your Facebook account????

:-)

EDIT: Also for clarification, while WE may know that using an impact wrench on the aluminum lugs is warned against in the 928 Factory Shop Manuals...doesn't mean that the Tire Shop Owner knows that...and no offense, but sending your daughter with a "note" is not the best way to inform a professional or Tire Shop Owner otherwise (especially in the good ole boy state of Georgia) .

Going in person with the page from the manual might have netted a different result IMHO.

hacker-pschorr

One small problem with that scenario. Anyone using an impact gun to tighten lugs on aluminum wheel's cannot call themselves a "professional". At least not in any automotive sense.

This is auto-shop 101

Using Torx sticks, maybe........which still requires the use of a torque wrench after. I've never seen a torz stick for the exact torque of our wheels.

No different than cutting a hole in the fender to install a master cylinder. Show me a shop that thinks this is a good idea then justify the owner of the car telling him to "deviate from his business standards and practices".

The reality is, if you find a shop operating this way, don't bother trying to change them since you really don't want to know what else they are doing horribly wrong when you are not looking.

DR

Hacker,

I said "HIS" business Standards and Practices.. not THE Standards and Practices.

Your missing it, I am not saying this is how it should be....just suggesting if you want to "educate" these guys to do it the "right" way....you may want to reconsider sending your daughter with a note.

OTOH, I have personally taken hundreds, and I mean literally hundreds and hundreds of high end Kinesis, Fikse, BBS and other custom 928 Wheels/Tires to be mounted/balanced to make sure they were handled with kid gloves and done exactly how I wanted them done. I never had a problem or any grief from any of the tire shops...but I did it in person and treated the Shop Owners and workers with absolute respect for their skills.....and on those rare handful of occasions I had to send my daughter...err, I mean my wife...I never sent them a note, I gave them a quick call to discuss if I needed something done out of the norm.

Dave

jacal128

My bad didn't know torque wrenches were out of the norm, the other shop had no problem that may be their standards of practice. All is good new company tires going on tomorrow for the same basic price and a smile.

DR

Jack,

Please don't misunderstand my posts. If I read the Thread topic correctly, the basic question was "Maybe I'm an ***?" with content talking about if the Tire Shop Owner was an ***, piled on by lots of folks automatically saying he was etc..

What I was trying to say was,... in my humble opinion from working with tons of guys like your ex-Tire Shop owner over the past 2 decades (directly related to 928 stuff),... and getting them to do the special things we need and want done to our 928s... was that a different approach could have been taken that possibly could have lead to more positive results. Nothing more, nothing less.

As 928 owners (and more generally as Porsche owners) we are already handicapped by the fact our 928s are very rare and most average shops (like a Tire Shop) rarely, if ever see one.

Combine that with the real world fact that most people already associate "Porsche Owners" as snobs, and/or spoiled little rich kids..I can go on and on...you can blame some (not all) of the 911 owners for that, or society in general, it is what it is.

Multiply this handicap as you get farther and farther away from most enlightened metro areas...and in some rural areas (for sure in the South), as soon as they see the word Porsche they have already made their mind up what "type" of person you are...in short, a real prejudice. Granted there are exceptions everywhere, just speaking as a general rule.

OK, stay with me.... so now you walk into an average automotive based establishment and basically start telling them they aren't currently smart enough to work on your Porsche "properly", or their current procedures aren't "correct".....I have seen the reaction many, many times, it's a slippery slope and takes a certain amount of ...crap ..can't think of the right words...I'll just say "sensitive negotiation" to turn all of that around.

In your particular situation you were further handicapped by sending your daughter with a "note" of how this person should do the work on your Porsche "correctly". .. Now think about that in conjunction with the last few paragraphs....

Just to be crystal clear, do not misunderstand me, there should be nothing wrong with your daughter or any woman requesting things be done a certain way on any car. BUT, believe it or not, the "Good Ole Boy Network" in the automotive world is still basically unchanged....as a general rule men (not all) think women know nothing about cars to start with. Trust me, I have seen, heard and watched this on a daily basis..and ironically from some of the same people posting in this thread...and to add even more to this situation, this happened in a relatively small middle Georgia town....and she had a "note" from Daddy.

Like it or not, IMHO (and after all you did ask for everyone's opinion) this whole situation could have been handled better..and all I have been trying to do is pass on some info in hopes it might make some people aware....that there is more than one way to go about getting guys like at the Tire Shop to do things the "right way" for not only your 928 ...but for the next 928ers that go there too.

I remember the first time I took a 928 to one of the big high end tire/wheel shops in Marietta (can't remember the name).. they were the biggest name in Atlanta at that time for high end custom wheels, tires and alignments.

The alignment guy was a 10 or 15 year veteran at alignments and touted as the best in the South. When I asked him to not lift the 928 he said he knew what he was doing and he could bounce it up and down and it would be fine. I said OK, go for it, but for fun let's measure it first, and after that you can lift it and bounce it back down to that same height...he said sure...I added, and just for fun let's make a $100 bet on it...he laughed and said he didn't want to take my money like that...I said, heck it's only money right?.

A little while later I left that shop...told the guy I would be back tomorrow after driving it around to get it to settle back down to the correct ride height again so he could do the alignment. He said he would do some reading on the rolling compensation feature of their alignment machine since he had never used it before...and to not spend that $100 all in one place. :-)

We became great friends and he did dozens of 928 alignments for me, for my customers and you can bet did it right from then on for each and every 928 he did for the rest of his alignment career.

Do you think that would have happened if I had just sent my 928 there with a "note" ?

So just from me taking the time to "educate" this professional (and he really was the best) in a fun and joking "one on one" in person way..all my 928s were aligned perfectly and so were all the other guys 928s that went there too.

I have done this now at approx 8-10 alignment shops over the decades in many different areas.... kind of odd that the old very common problem of 928s with worn inside front treads sort of became less common over those years.

Unfortunately the word got around and the alignment guys wouldn't take the $100 bet any longer....dang it!!

In the end it is our responsibility to take the time, and it doesn't take much, to educate these "professionals" at every opportunity on how to properly work on our beloved 928s...if we don't do it who will?

This is one of the guiding thoughts and concepts that prompted myself a few other great guys to start the 928 Owners Club..it was to be about US taking responsibility to educate others not only about our beloved 928s, but also how to work on them and maintain them properly..

OR, we can sit back and start threads to bitch and moan about how some tire shop owner is an idiot,... instead of taking a few moments to at least try and teach them a little about our beloved 928s little "quirks". It will not only benefit you but will also benefit the next 928er who stops by that shop....and it could be any one of us here that happens to be passing thru and needs some tire/wheel work done on our 928s....heck I used to drive thru there all the time!

Cheers,

Dave

michael j wright

Well said sir

jacal128

gbgastowers

When the local Porsche shop (Motor Works) aligned mine last week I asked them not to lift it but they did to free up the eccentrics. I told them I would need to drive it for a while then come back for the alignment later when the car had settled back down. They said they could bounce it back down or do some figure eights in a nearby parking lot to get it back down. I told them I did not want them to bounce my old car or do figure eights in it. About that time the shop foreman asked me to remove myself from the shop due to insurance limits. I went back to the waiting room and after they had worked on it about 3 hrs for $125 it seems perfect. It still remains to be seen how it wears but it feels great. I had to let go and trust them and it seems like they worked hard and did a good job for a decent price. Gunar

Podguy

Haker,

So cutting the bell housing on an automatic to remove the torque tube and save 10 hours of shop time would not be a "Modification" you would approve of?