DougM

Can it be done with the cam towers on from the front of the engine? I know I will have to remove my timing belt....for the 3rd time.....but that does not bother me because I have become quite quick at it.
The problem is that I finally got my car started today after an engine removal and reseal. I did not remove the cam gears from the towers when they were off because they were not leaking. Now it appears that after getting it all back together, they leak. It is coming from each side and it starts above the cam tower gaskets so I figure it must be the sealing ring behind the gears.
I assume that if I pull the belt off again and pull the gears and backing plates I can easily replace this seal?

michael j wright

Yes, I did this on mine. There are also two o'rings that need to be replaced while you are in there. One were the housing end meets the cam cover, and one small one right behind the spacer.

chrly924s

I just did mine two weekss ago. Not a hard job. There's a small round seal that looks like a drain that was leaking on one of mine. Roger had everything for about $20.

Landseer

IIRC, this is the complete list of what is inside the cam noses and behind the back cover plates --- does not include the cam tower gaskets and they do not need to be removed, as noted above:


2 Rear Cam Cover Seals (silicon) 928 106 189 02s
2 Cam Shaft Seal - Driven - 77-95 999 113 282 40
2 Cam shaft O-Ring 77-86 small 928 701 592 40
2 Cam shaft O-Ring 77-86 Large 999 701 602 40
2 Cam Tower Seal 928 105 184 00
1 Distributor Seal 928 602 103 00



Congrats on getting it back into good running shape. I've been following and you've been on quite an adventure. Byproduct is you now have one heck of a lot of knowledge of all aspects of the mid year Euro to share.

DougM

Thanks
What is the difference between the two seals shown here in #20?
http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...-86/103-05.php
Is the number you gave me for the '84 Euro S?

When I am done with this one, I will be able to do a 16v timing belt change with my eyes closed.
Looking at things, I may be able to take a shortcut on these without removing the lower cover and the accessory belts etc.....
The pass side gear cover is easily removed and the driver side can be removed by pulling the dizzy first. I line everything up at TDC(even though it is not necessary) and mark the belt and gears with whiteout for future alignment. Loosen the tensioner and wedge something at the lower portion of the belt to keep it on the teeth of the crank gear. Without tension, I should be able to slide the belt off the gears and proceed with the seal fix. When I button it back up, all I have to do is line up the white marks on the belt to the gears and re-tension. Then the motor a few time to make sure everything stays lined up, then install the belt covers and dizzy.
If I can do this, I won't have to disconnect any coolant lines or remove the center belt cover which also requires the oil return tube and accessory belts. If it won't work, all I have to do is remove everything that I would have in the first place.

rjtw

Resurrecting an old thread. I have an '83 US car. I'm considering whether I should replace my cam tower seals (and all the other cam-related seals) while I have by expansion tank, filler neck, and ruel rails off. Does having that stuff already off make the job much easier, and is there anything else that needs to be removed around the sides of the engine for clearance to get the towers off? It sounds like it's a pain, and I'm evaluating whether I can live with my (not major) oil leaks until some future time when I will just yank the engine and do everything.

Has anyone tried the shortcut method above of just loosening the timing belt on a 16V car (but not removing accessories, lower center belt cover etc.) to get the belt off the cam gear and remove the cam tower?

Landseer

I've never replaced gaskets beneath the valve covers, or cam covers as they are called. Somebody who has maybe can comment about degree of difficulty. This thread mainly dealt with replacement of the tower seals, which are behind the aluminum covers, or backing plates, aka Mickey mouse ears, that are just behind the cam gears. Yes, you can loosen the timing belt and slide it off the cam gears. The aluminum covers have orings in them that seal around camshaft snouts. Those can be so hard and carbonized on the inner diameter of the cover (these orings seal around the camshaft snouts) that they need to be carefully chipped or broken out. The covers have other orings or fat little round seals behind them for mounting to the oilways on front of the heads.

On my cars these latter orings or seals leaked, as is common, and the oil seeped out from behind the Mickey mouse ear backing plates and downward in two directions, 1) down onto the ac compressor and alternator on respective sides of the engine compartment, plus 2) downwards and backwards along edges of the cam covers, giving the false impression that the cam cover gaskets might need to be replaced. Those are a bit more of a pita to replace apparently, and yes you would want clearance all along fender wells to get to them. In my big toolbox sit a pair of cam cover gaskets since 2007 that someday will be needed for my 84 car.

One other recollection, be careful to follow the torque spec on the snout bolts for the camshaft gears. The camshaft ends are apparently brittle so there is some danger of breakage if over tightened when putting it all back together, or later down the road.
Does that help answer your questions? Look really closely, maybe you can avoid pulling off the valve covers because it might not be the leak source.

Do note that there are a pair of cover plates on the very back of the heads, up against firewall, that were originally fitted with cork gaskets. The little 10 mm mounting bolts get loose and that becomes a significant leak source. Roger has a pair of silicon rubber gaskets that can be substituted. I suggest addressing those. Tight quarters, you will need to do some gymnastics with a 10 mm gear wrench.

So the main leaks are often attributed to oilway matchups or coverlets on front and backs of the heads. Valve cover gaskets could be changed, now due to better access, which is what I think you are asking, but I'd only do it if certain the are really leaking. Most times I just replace all seals and wear items anywher in vicinity, here's a rare place I've selected to just leave well enough alone.

rjtw

Wisconsin Joe

Removing the cam towers with the motor in the car is not easy.
There's not much around the motor that can be removed for easier access.

My understanding is that if only doing one, it's a coin toss whether or not to pull the motor.
If doing both it's easier to just pull the motor.

rjtw

Thanks Joe, that's exactly the feedback I was looking for. Along with Landseer's feedback, I'll fix up the front and rear seals on the cam tower and will leave the cam tower-to-head gaskets for another day.
Cheers!
Rick

jpitman2

Re doing the seals on the cam fronts....Just done one of mine. Removing the front plate (called cam bearing by PET) was a real PITA. On advice I fitted a 2 leg puller, hand tightened the bolt, tapped on the back, tightened, repeat ad nauseum. took best part of an hour. once off its easy to get the Orings in. Took quite a bit of gentle tapping to get it back in place, and in alignment with the bolt holes.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k

Ad0911

Are these camshaft tower gaskets supposed to be installed dry or with help of some liquid sealant?

Kiln_Red

I have installed them dry with excellent results on two prior engines. Make sure the cam oil passage is clear.