jcorenman

+1 on that.

More disturbing is Müller's response to the question of broadening Porsche's model line:
There's a great reason to design new cars... He goes on and talks about a very light 550-style car, at roughly 40,000 Euro, and then the idea of a "Panamera Junior". That leads to the question of two doors versus four, and the comment about having to protect the 911. But he goes on:
Yikes, $350K for a 911? And a million for a 918?? He's right, there's a lot of room in there for half-million-dollar something.

Clearly the days of Porsche as an engineering-driven company are long gone, but we knew that.

And maybe Henrich is correct, that the days of "grand touring" are over, but I would still rather spend all day on the road in a 928 than an hour in an airport...

EspritS4s

So, because there are a bunch of incumbents, it's a big money market?

Porsche sold something like 20K Cayennes last year which is more than twice the number of Ferrari's total sales. By your logic, I guess Ferrari needs to add a SUV to their lineup.

Abby Normal

Because there is a market for the $400k range and that would put a model between the 918 ($845k) and the $250k GT2RS while not compromising 991 sales.

If Porsche is going to sell 300,000 cars, it will be because of additional models. Some models will add volume while others will be exclusive and add to profitability.

tv

And by your logic, all these companies should pack it in, because they don't produce Camry sales volume.


8000 AM sales
70,000 S class mercedes sales
7,000 ferrari sales = 2.7 billion $



FYI - Jan-Oct 2007 before recession Porsche sold 336 GT3RS and 304 Cayenne turbo S in the US its largest market. Thats only 600+ top of the line cars in the 150K and up market.

Most Porsche sales are on the low end, meaning 6 cylinder Cayennes and base 911's. Porsche is a blue collar exotic car company and that is why they would be smart to enter the luxury GT market. They have none of it now.


6 months ago
Porsche Exec:
He said that the model would fill the gap between the $245,000 Porsche 911 GT2 RS and the $845,000 Porsche 918 Spyder.

“We’re currently examining what options can be derived from this” hole in the product range, Maier said at the manufacturer’s headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany. “There already are initial ideas that look very promising on paper.”





recent post by guy who claims to have knowledge of porsche plans above what regular people would know - here

heinrich

1) none of us knows
2) we all have opinions and guesses
3) why do these things always turn into arguments? I guess people are passionate
4) I don't care if they make another 928, even if they did it would just overshadow our old, old-school cars.
5) I'm outta this thread

tv

Just a reminder, in 1985 Porsche sold 5,000+ 928's worldwide. The equivalent car today would be in the $150K + range. It's a much stronger upper end market today even with the recession and Porsche has a big hole in the line-up.

Protecting the 911, what does that even mean? People who don't want a cramped little sportscar don't settle for 911's with turbo's they buy AM's and Ferrari's and Bentley's.

curt_928

Interesting thread.

Didn't think of it until now but since Porsche can take the Audi/VW platform and modify it up.. i.e Q5, why not take the A5 platform and stuff a panamera transaxle into it?

I'm still confused why the marginal income from a 2door Panamera would be built. If people wanted a 928 successor, why not consider an Aston Martin? It's as expensive as a 911 and does a pretty good job of it. Why would someone buy a 2 door Panamera for $250k dollars when they could just as easily buy an Aston for that price or less? With greater exclusivity. Aren't most Panameras and Cayenne's leased?

Final question. Since this is a place that the car has its greatest potential buyers.. how many on this forum would actually spend the money to buy one, vs lease it? Buy new, buy used?

I personally might entertain buying used or leasing in the future..

"Protecting the 911, what does that even mean? People who don't want a cramped little sportscar don't settle for 911's with turbo's they buy AM's and Ferrari's and Bentley's. " -> Most ferrari owners seem to have 911's or M3's that they use for daily transportation. The 911 is Porsche's foundation, the same way they didn't give the cayman an lsd on those fears..

tv

1) I provided the link of a guy who claims to know.

2) true

3) not argument, just a discussion. No consequence to any party for being wrong here.

tv

Where does that marginal income go? Porsche would rather have it than give it to Prof. Bez.




You must kidding, thinking that 929 buyers are on this board in any number greater than 1 hand.



You missed the point, how is it protecting the 911 to let thousands of buyers go to other companies?

z driver 88t

The 928 was a GT way back when the 911 was a fairly spartan sports car with rudimentary climate control, no power steering, and as I recall a cable operated clutch. You'd be hard pressed to get into anything newer than a 996 and call it less than a GT, albeit a very good handling GT. The 991 even goes further with the Panamera-esque interior. Really no need for another GT with the engine at the other end.

I agree with the previous post tha the Cayman/Boxster derivatives fill the typical sports car niche and the GT3 will take care of the highend folks.

curt_928

Actually.. that is exactly what I was thinking. ;-)

When the 928 first emerged it had what? Two major alternatives? Corvette or Mercedes coupe? As a result it brought "new buyers" into the marque. Non-911 buyers. Today, those non-911 buyers already own a DB9, 599 (if you want to go that far), nissan Z or GTR. The only buyer that will entertain a 929 would be other porsche, audi or VW buyers. Thus no "new" buyers. Would the Panamera leases when they end suddenly go to a more expensive 2-door. I doubt it.

Please don't get me wrong.. I'd love to see a new 928 with a different hindquarter than the Panamera.. but i'm having difficulty justifying it from a business case. I haven't factored asian buyers into the mix however.. .

tv

How does a guy who can barely afford a 100K 997 buy a 175K 929?


If the 929 were on par with the 928 relative to the competition in looks, performance and luxury then a lot of the Aston, Ferrari, lambo, Lotus buyers would leave those marques and come to Porsche.

I spend a lot of time on other boards and in person around other marques. I know the market pretty well. People do not decide between a 100K 997 and a 200K V12V. Just as people would not decide between a 100K 991 and a 175K 929. It's just not the same crowd.

Nor is the GT3 or GT2. Those cars are produced in tiny numbers and are often sold quickly by the original buyers. They are not daily drivers for the wealthy or really street cars at all. Porsche would not be hurting 911 sales by building a top line GT.

Speedtoys

I dunno, I like options.

Speedtoys

Thats just a couch guess.

A 500K option may just steal from the 918, and GT2RS sales numbers..which defeats the purpose of spending treasure to design a new model that needs to sell XXXXX copies to break even, and draw away from the break even/good business metrics that the 928/GT2RS requires to stay in the catalogue.

hacker-pschorr

Very few people are going to have a hard time deciding between a $400k Panamera Coupe that also has a $90k version with a V6 sitting next to it on the showroom over a GTO or a high end Aston Martin.

If you honestly think Porsche will pump out a 2-door Panamera and not carry over every engine option (which includes a future diesel & hybrid) your fooling yourself.

Such a platform will not compete with the 599 and be way out of consideration for a GTO buyer.

If we are talking about a clean sheet design (like the 928 was) then maybe, just maybe this could work. The reality is it will be a parts bin assembled coupe based on an existing platform that will also be shared with Audi.

Could they sell a small handful of limited run, special edition's like the 911 Speedster? Maybe, but that's a risky gamble.