83 Euro S Various Running Problems
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
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83 Euro S Various Running Problems
Hello Everybody ,
Having read all of the posts I can find to help me cure the following problem I thought it best to ask for some help .
The car is an 83 Euro S manual . Very recent (last weekend) new parts are plugs , leads , dist cap , rotor arm , and coil . It has not yet had a fuel filter , but it looks OK which of course means nothing . The green wire looks in quite good condition without any visible splits or cracks and the connectors seem ok . The multi pin plug on the engine wiring harness also looks good and I have cleaned the pins and opened them up a tiny amount to ensure a decent connection . I can't see any missing or dodgy vacuum connections .
General cold staring is sort of ok but not great requiring two or three attempts . Hot starting is terrible . There is a misfire which would seem to suddenly disappear at about 2500 rpm and is undetectable by 3000 rpm . The car would seem to surge forwards when the misfire disappears with a clean engine note , no vibration or stuttering .
Hopefully somebody will have the miracle solution to this problem or do you think that I am going to have to go through the injection system from back to front ?
Best regards and thanks for any help in advance ,
Chris.
Having read all of the posts I can find to help me cure the following problem I thought it best to ask for some help .
The car is an 83 Euro S manual . Very recent (last weekend) new parts are plugs , leads , dist cap , rotor arm , and coil . It has not yet had a fuel filter , but it looks OK which of course means nothing . The green wire looks in quite good condition without any visible splits or cracks and the connectors seem ok . The multi pin plug on the engine wiring harness also looks good and I have cleaned the pins and opened them up a tiny amount to ensure a decent connection . I can't see any missing or dodgy vacuum connections .
General cold staring is sort of ok but not great requiring two or three attempts . Hot starting is terrible . There is a misfire which would seem to suddenly disappear at about 2500 rpm and is undetectable by 3000 rpm . The car would seem to surge forwards when the misfire disappears with a clean engine note , no vibration or stuttering .
Hopefully somebody will have the miracle solution to this problem or do you think that I am going to have to go through the injection system from back to front ?
Best regards and thanks for any help in advance ,
Chris.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,162
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From: Johnson City, TN
Did you clean the ground wires on the engine, passenger cam cover? There are two different mounting points on the Ljet and LH jet cars, and I think at least one applies also to Euro CIS. One above "O", other, more visible, adjacent to the "H". These are mission critical for computers and sensors.
Vac leak is also a potential player here. And corosion in coil end.
Vac leak is also a potential player here. And corosion in coil end.
Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses Guys .
The engine ground wires I will check in the morning , should there be two or one on a Euro CIS ?
The coil is brand new . As it happens there has also been some flickering of the voltmeter and on occasions it has sat at 12V and then jumped up to 13+ when the throttle has been blipped . Alternator should be a "brand new " recon and the battery is brand new . Battery strap was cleaned and some copper grease applied .
On the matter of the green wire it is running very close to the block and is on inspection tie wrapped to the underside of the engine wiring harness as it crosses to the distributor . could this be an issue ?
Thanks a lot , Chris
The engine ground wires I will check in the morning , should there be two or one on a Euro CIS ?
The coil is brand new . As it happens there has also been some flickering of the voltmeter and on occasions it has sat at 12V and then jumped up to 13+ when the throttle has been blipped . Alternator should be a "brand new " recon and the battery is brand new . Battery strap was cleaned and some copper grease applied .
On the matter of the green wire it is running very close to the block and is on inspection tie wrapped to the underside of the engine wiring harness as it crosses to the distributor . could this be an issue ?
Thanks a lot , Chris
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 7,743
Likes: 78
From: Minneapolis
You should mostly ignore the dash gauge. Notoriously unreliable for evaluations. Use a voltmeter from the chassis to jump post in the engine bay or some other good contact. The dash gauge is strongly affected by marginal grounds.
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From: Australia
Sounds like its a CIS car, despite not being explicitly stated. Does sound electrical in nature, but with CIS, best be sure of that side too. First easy check - fuel delivery rate - disconnect return line going over LH cam cover, run engine side into a container, bridge pump relay, you should get ~1350ml/30 secs. If OK...you need to splice a gauge (on a T with a stop valve on one side) into the line from fuel dist to WUR inlet. Once fitted safely (extinguisher in hand), bridge pump relay, stop valve open, should see <20psi cold, rising to a max of ~45psi fully hot through. Stop valve (on WUR side of gauge) close, system pressure is shown, should be 65-75 psi. Pump relay bridging is most conveniently done with a length of 2 core flex, 2 male spade tags at one end to go into relay sockets, a momentary switch at other end, so you can remotely turn pump on/off from the engine bay. I have had misfires in my CIS car which went away when I cracked open the offending cylinder's injector - local wrench opined that this indicated a blockage of that injector's feed in the fuel distributor, which fell off the feed hole when pressure was released. Only happened a couple of times, hasnt returned.
Is this issue new, or is car new to you, any history you can give please?
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k
Is this issue new, or is car new to you, any history you can give please?
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Morning Everybody ,
Yes the car is an 83 CIS . So , this morning I found all grounds that had not previously been cleaned , and gave them a through clean , a copper slip ,and then a test drive . The main ground cable to the engine is in good condition .
Initially the problem was slightly better , with the misfire clearing up at 1500 rpm but then as the engine warmed to operating temperature as indicated on the temperature gauge the problem worsened and was present until about 3000 rpm , possibly slightly higher . Any attempt to cruise at say 40 mph along country roads in 4th gear and to an extent in third gave way to some pretty poor misfiring and general shuddering .
I have ordered a fuel injection pressure testing kit - it will arrive on tuesday and save messing about trying to put something together .
The car is new to me , I have had it for a while but not running until recently.
Thanks for the help so far.
Chris.
Yes the car is an 83 CIS . So , this morning I found all grounds that had not previously been cleaned , and gave them a through clean , a copper slip ,and then a test drive . The main ground cable to the engine is in good condition .
Initially the problem was slightly better , with the misfire clearing up at 1500 rpm but then as the engine warmed to operating temperature as indicated on the temperature gauge the problem worsened and was present until about 3000 rpm , possibly slightly higher . Any attempt to cruise at say 40 mph along country roads in 4th gear and to an extent in third gave way to some pretty poor misfiring and general shuddering .
I have ordered a fuel injection pressure testing kit - it will arrive on tuesday and save messing about trying to put something together .
The car is new to me , I have had it for a while but not running until recently.
Thanks for the help so far.
Chris.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 50
Likes: 20
Well a quick update . Changed coil to a known good one and no improvement .
However - I thought I would investigate the injectors . They are in a hell of a state with hardened seals that disintigrate when removed .Three were barely tight and there was significant play between the aluminium housing and the injector . No 1 was covered in corrosion, oxide all over the place . No 2 was wet , so is this the leaking hot start culprit ? Got the hoover out and sucked out all of the loose debris as the injectors were withdrawn .
Think that I might need to have a proper look at all the other parts mentioned.
What do you think?
Chris.
However - I thought I would investigate the injectors . They are in a hell of a state with hardened seals that disintigrate when removed .Three were barely tight and there was significant play between the aluminium housing and the injector . No 1 was covered in corrosion, oxide all over the place . No 2 was wet , so is this the leaking hot start culprit ? Got the hoover out and sucked out all of the loose debris as the injectors were withdrawn .
Think that I might need to have a proper look at all the other parts mentioned.
What do you think?
Chris.
Race Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,793
Likes: 92
From: Mechanochondriacism
I'd finish your exploration of the fuel issues given that it is a persistent problem. My experience working on a car with faults in the electrical bits I mentioned followed a different pattern. Primarily at high demand/high rpm and it was like flicking a disconnect switch for the whole engine, rather than a miss or stumble.
Last edited by SMTCapeCod; Sep 4, 2011 at 12:49 PM.