Front Wheel Bearing Adjustment
08-08-2011, 12:35 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Front Wheel Bearing Adjustment
Yesterday I noticed some play on the right side wheel (driver side has none)
I checked the WSM and tried to adjust the bearing as described (the tabbed washer can still be moved slightly with a screwdriver) and it looks like the wheels have way to much play. If I tight the nut a bit more, I can no longer move the thrust washer with a screwdriver but the tightness is much better with only minimal play...
I saw in another thread from Wally P. using this method:
I tried that also but the tabbed washer cannot be moved slightly with a screwdriver. But the tightness is good with only minimal play.
Is there any other way to properly adjust the front bearings???
I checked the WSM and tried to adjust the bearing as described (the tabbed washer can still be moved slightly with a screwdriver) and it looks like the wheels have way to much play. If I tight the nut a bit more, I can no longer move the thrust washer with a screwdriver but the tightness is much better with only minimal play...
I saw in another thread from Wally P. using this method:
As you turn the hub, tighten the bearings snugly with a wrench or big pliers.
Stop turning the hub, and loosen the nut.
Tighten it as tight as you can with only your fingers.
Stop turning the hub, and loosen the nut.
Tighten it as tight as you can with only your fingers.
Is there any other way to properly adjust the front bearings???
08-08-2011, 12:38 PM
#2
Team Owner
before you go to much into this you should remove the hub and inspect the lower inner bearing seat on the spindle,
there you will probably find that the spindle has a wear mark on it thus increasing the play the bearings will have ,
if you over tighten the nut to remove this play the bearings will run hotter and possibly fail.
its best to have the washer be able to be moved per the WSM ,
and if the spindle is worn then either replace it or just live with the play.
For some reason the spindles seem to be made of very soft metal and the bearings seem to easily damage the seats
there you will probably find that the spindle has a wear mark on it thus increasing the play the bearings will have ,
if you over tighten the nut to remove this play the bearings will run hotter and possibly fail.
its best to have the washer be able to be moved per the WSM ,
and if the spindle is worn then either replace it or just live with the play.
For some reason the spindles seem to be made of very soft metal and the bearings seem to easily damage the seats
08-08-2011, 12:54 PM
#3
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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What Stan and Wally wrote^^^^!
I'd start off at this point with new bearings and a new seal. Before you install the new inner bearing in the hub, slide the cone (part that has the rollers in the cage...) onto the spindle and see if it has any looseness at all. Per Stan's recommendation, you are likely to find that the bottom of the spindle where that inner bearing sits is polished from the bearing moving on the spindle. There are no good permanent cures for excessive wear short of replacing the spindle unfortunately.
On assembly with the new parts, follow the WSM and Wally/Stan, Do Not over-tighten the adjustment. The aluminum hub expands as it heats in normal driving, and after it grows there still needs to be room to maintain a film of grease between those rollers and the races. Better slightly loose rather than even slightly tight. I use either Redline CV1 or the Mobil1 synthetic grease for these with good results. Remember that cleanliness is very important.
I'd start off at this point with new bearings and a new seal. Before you install the new inner bearing in the hub, slide the cone (part that has the rollers in the cage...) onto the spindle and see if it has any looseness at all. Per Stan's recommendation, you are likely to find that the bottom of the spindle where that inner bearing sits is polished from the bearing moving on the spindle. There are no good permanent cures for excessive wear short of replacing the spindle unfortunately.
On assembly with the new parts, follow the WSM and Wally/Stan, Do Not over-tighten the adjustment. The aluminum hub expands as it heats in normal driving, and after it grows there still needs to be room to maintain a film of grease between those rollers and the races. Better slightly loose rather than even slightly tight. I use either Redline CV1 or the Mobil1 synthetic grease for these with good results. Remember that cleanliness is very important.
Last edited by dr bob; 08-09-2011 at 01:38 AM.
08-08-2011, 07:47 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
One car I had in the past (iron hubs) specified .003-.004" play in the bearings cold. The hub nut/washer provided a 52 point vernier (4x13) to enable this adjustment. Alloy hubs complicate this a bit...but slightly loose is better than tight - tapered rollers do not like tight!
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k
08-09-2011, 12:41 AM
#7
Team Owner
From the link posted above
I have learned a couple of important things after tightening my bearing a few times in preparation for Driver's Ed tech inspections:
1) Use Vice Grip tool 11R (a big "C" clamp type device) to remove the bearing cap. (Thanks, DR!)
Clamp onto the cap tightly at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and work the tool up and down rapidly to slowly work the cap out. This method gets the cap off in less than 30 seconds with no damage to the cap. Try it, you'll like it! (Much more civilized than banging away at it it with a hammer and chisel.)
2) The factory manual says to tighten the bearing nut until it's so tight that you can barely move the thrust washer with a screwdriver. I have found that this method leaves the bearings much too loose. So, I tighten it first using the method in the manuals and then tighten the nut a bit more before locking it down. This done, you can no longer move the thrust washer with a screwdriver, but the tightness is much better.
3) You can not tell how tight the bearings are with the wheel off. I suggest that you check your work by remounting the wheel without replacing the bearing cap (to allow for easy readjustment). Then grab the wheel at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and try to wiggle it. Experiment with different bearing tightnesses until you find the right setting. Remember, you want the bearing nut just tight enough to remove all free play but not so tight that it would cause binding.
+Greg Nichols
'87 928S4
My Suggestions
NOTE the last bits of info do not take into consideration a worn lower inner spindle bearing seat,
as previously stated fit the bearings and nut per the WSM,
its better to have some play if you have a worn bearing seating surface than to remove the play with an extra tight nut,
the bearing rollers will turn blue then start galling and chunking
NOTE if your spindle nut has been put on too tight then you may also have a groove cut into the washer surface if this happens then you wont get accurate preload ,
The solution remove the washer and surface it with some 220 grit paper do both sides to remove any burs and put the smoothest side towards the bearing.
I have learned a couple of important things after tightening my bearing a few times in preparation for Driver's Ed tech inspections:
1) Use Vice Grip tool 11R (a big "C" clamp type device) to remove the bearing cap. (Thanks, DR!)
Clamp onto the cap tightly at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and work the tool up and down rapidly to slowly work the cap out. This method gets the cap off in less than 30 seconds with no damage to the cap. Try it, you'll like it! (Much more civilized than banging away at it it with a hammer and chisel.)
2) The factory manual says to tighten the bearing nut until it's so tight that you can barely move the thrust washer with a screwdriver. I have found that this method leaves the bearings much too loose. So, I tighten it first using the method in the manuals and then tighten the nut a bit more before locking it down. This done, you can no longer move the thrust washer with a screwdriver, but the tightness is much better.
3) You can not tell how tight the bearings are with the wheel off. I suggest that you check your work by remounting the wheel without replacing the bearing cap (to allow for easy readjustment). Then grab the wheel at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and try to wiggle it. Experiment with different bearing tightnesses until you find the right setting. Remember, you want the bearing nut just tight enough to remove all free play but not so tight that it would cause binding.
+Greg Nichols
'87 928S4
My Suggestions
NOTE the last bits of info do not take into consideration a worn lower inner spindle bearing seat,
as previously stated fit the bearings and nut per the WSM,
its better to have some play if you have a worn bearing seating surface than to remove the play with an extra tight nut,
the bearing rollers will turn blue then start galling and chunking
NOTE if your spindle nut has been put on too tight then you may also have a groove cut into the washer surface if this happens then you wont get accurate preload ,
The solution remove the washer and surface it with some 220 grit paper do both sides to remove any burs and put the smoothest side towards the bearing.
Last edited by Mrmerlin; 08-09-2011 at 09:12 AM.
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08-09-2011, 01:03 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Can also have extreme sharpness / shards at the back of the spindle, over which the seal needs to slip.
I've had one slightly loose inner bearing, perhaps just starting to spin. After packing it, I cleaned the spindle contacting part with solvent on a bunch of Qtips, same for the spindle, and used loctite retaining sleeve juice on them.
I've had one slightly loose inner bearing, perhaps just starting to spin. After packing it, I cleaned the spindle contacting part with solvent on a bunch of Qtips, same for the spindle, and used loctite retaining sleeve juice on them.
08-09-2011, 08:53 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
...
NOTE if your spindle nut has been put on too tight then you may also have a groove cut into the washer surface if this happens then you wont get accurate preload ,
The solution remove the washer and surface it with some 220 grit paper do both sides to remove any burs and put the smoothest side towards the bearing.
NOTE if your spindle nut has been put on too tight then you may also have a groove cut into the washer surface if this happens then you wont get accurate preload ,
The solution remove the washer and surface it with some 220 grit paper do both sides to remove any burs and put the smoothest side towards the bearing.
08-09-2011, 09:20 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
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While Loctite does have products that will fill the wear gap when properly applied and allowed to fully cure before weight is applied, there is a problem...
Correct application of ball and roller bearings calls for one race to be a tight, non-moving fit, and one race to be a "line-fit", which can rotate very slightly and very slowly during use. This prevents the ***** or rollers from wearing localized wear spots in the races by allowing slight relative movement between the races. If you make both races tight fits, the life of the bearing is shortened.
Correct application of ball and roller bearings calls for one race to be a tight, non-moving fit, and one race to be a "line-fit", which can rotate very slightly and very slowly during use. This prevents the ***** or rollers from wearing localized wear spots in the races by allowing slight relative movement between the races. If you make both races tight fits, the life of the bearing is shortened.
