Psychosomatic repair or a real thing?
06-08-2011, 02:40 PM
#1
Drifting
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Psychosomatic repair or a real thing?
89 S4 - Here is the back-story.....
2 seasons ago I got a new set of Sumitomo 295's for the rear of the car. Last season I got set of Sumo's for the front.
After getting the fronts installed, I immediately noticed they had more of a "hummmm" than the Mich Pilot PS2's that were on there before. When the old tires were removed, there was a lot of tread wear on the inside of tire.
I wrote the "hummmm" off to it being new tires/tread.
Now, I don't do a lot of highway driving. I may be on the highway 4-5 times a year. One night while on the highway, I noticed the "hummmm" was pronounced in the drivers-side front....and it would get louder/softer depending on which way the corner I was taking went. Right away, I searched Rennlist and figured it was a wheel bearing.
Just after I had the new front tires installed, I had a safety inspection and the drivers-side front needed the wheel bearing adjusted to pass inspection. I also had an alignment just after that.
There is a local shop here I have taken the car to for "small" things (CV boots, etc.). I took it there for them to check the play in the wheel/bearings.
As they were looking the car over, I over-heard one mechanic ask the other "did you check the tire pressure" and he replied "ahhhhhh - no!". What I got from that comment was that tire pressure did not play a part in the solution. After they looked at it, they told me I needed new bearings on that side. They could hear the "grind", they said. I thanked them and left.
I then took the car to the house of the mechanic who did the last inspection (and wheel bearing adjustment). We put it up on the hoist - no movement in the wheel at all. He spun the wheel - there was a slight noise. He asked how old the brake pads were, etc. Took the wheel off and I showed him where the one brake pad doesn't sit completely flat due to the plate behind it being slightly bent - when Garth S changed the brake pads, he would file down the pad a bit to compensate for this. I'd get slightly more brake dust on that one side and the mechanic agreed that slight noise was probably due to this. He was of the opinion the wheel bearing was fine.
Back to the tire pressure. I told him what I overheard at the other shop and he said perhaps the "ahhhhh no!" response may have been more of a "ahhhh, no....that might fix the problem for free" response.
Checked the air pressure and all tires were around 30-36 lbs. The passenger side rear was 20!! I had not checked my tire pressure since way back when the rears were installed. Pumped some air back into the tires - put the 36 in front and 42 in back (a lil high, I know).
Took it out for a spin on the highway and the noise in the driver-side front was gone. Going around corners would not make more or less of a pronounced sound like before. Mind you, I could still hear a slight "hummmm" from the rear, but the tires were at 42 lbs on 295/18/35's - so of course they will make some noise.
So......would a really low tire pressure on the passenger rear cause a symptom similar to a wheel bearing in the driver-side front? or am I "not hearing things" because of the "well, that fixed it" mind set?
2 seasons ago I got a new set of Sumitomo 295's for the rear of the car. Last season I got set of Sumo's for the front.
After getting the fronts installed, I immediately noticed they had more of a "hummmm" than the Mich Pilot PS2's that were on there before. When the old tires were removed, there was a lot of tread wear on the inside of tire.
I wrote the "hummmm" off to it being new tires/tread.
Now, I don't do a lot of highway driving. I may be on the highway 4-5 times a year. One night while on the highway, I noticed the "hummmm" was pronounced in the drivers-side front....and it would get louder/softer depending on which way the corner I was taking went. Right away, I searched Rennlist and figured it was a wheel bearing.
Just after I had the new front tires installed, I had a safety inspection and the drivers-side front needed the wheel bearing adjusted to pass inspection. I also had an alignment just after that.
There is a local shop here I have taken the car to for "small" things (CV boots, etc.). I took it there for them to check the play in the wheel/bearings.
As they were looking the car over, I over-heard one mechanic ask the other "did you check the tire pressure" and he replied "ahhhhhh - no!". What I got from that comment was that tire pressure did not play a part in the solution. After they looked at it, they told me I needed new bearings on that side. They could hear the "grind", they said. I thanked them and left.
I then took the car to the house of the mechanic who did the last inspection (and wheel bearing adjustment). We put it up on the hoist - no movement in the wheel at all. He spun the wheel - there was a slight noise. He asked how old the brake pads were, etc. Took the wheel off and I showed him where the one brake pad doesn't sit completely flat due to the plate behind it being slightly bent - when Garth S changed the brake pads, he would file down the pad a bit to compensate for this. I'd get slightly more brake dust on that one side and the mechanic agreed that slight noise was probably due to this. He was of the opinion the wheel bearing was fine.
Back to the tire pressure. I told him what I overheard at the other shop and he said perhaps the "ahhhhh no!" response may have been more of a "ahhhh, no....that might fix the problem for free" response.
Checked the air pressure and all tires were around 30-36 lbs. The passenger side rear was 20!! I had not checked my tire pressure since way back when the rears were installed. Pumped some air back into the tires - put the 36 in front and 42 in back (a lil high, I know).
Took it out for a spin on the highway and the noise in the driver-side front was gone. Going around corners would not make more or less of a pronounced sound like before. Mind you, I could still hear a slight "hummmm" from the rear, but the tires were at 42 lbs on 295/18/35's - so of course they will make some noise.
So......would a really low tire pressure on the passenger rear cause a symptom similar to a wheel bearing in the driver-side front? or am I "not hearing things" because of the "well, that fixed it" mind set?
06-08-2011, 03:19 PM
#2
Been selling Twinkies on Ebay,
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
Totally believable. I have run tires on my car that made a voracious noise.
06-08-2011, 04:25 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Jeff,
Have you checked your Sumitomo's description on the Sumitomo site? I bought a California car with Sumitomo's on it.(the HTRZ II's) Love the car; love the way it handles; loved the tires. One of the last below freezing days we had this winter was also the day of our local GTG. I looked over the car and the right rear tire was low so I aired it up. As I was doing that, I was hearing a sound like ice cracking. I figured I must have had water in the treads when I pulled it inot the garage and it had formed into ice. By the time I got to the GTG, the whole inside of the tire was a expanded (like a small knot but really big) I had to borrow a tire/wheel to get home.
Found this on the TireRack website about these tires:
"The HTR Z II (High Technology Radials-2nd generation) is Sumitomo's Ultra High Performance Summer tire developed for the drivers of sports cars, sporty coupes and performance sedans. The HTR Z II is designed to blend a unique appearance, dry and wet performance and ride comfort. Like all summer tires, the HTR Z II is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.
The HTR Z II molds a high performance tread compound featuring ultra micro carbon technology and silica-based rubber into a directional pattern that features wide, arched tread blocks to enhance dry road traction and handling. A circumferential center rain groove and multi-direction water channels resist hydroplaning and enhance wet traction. The tire's internal structure features two steel belts with spirally wrapped Jointless Nylon Band reinforcement to enhance high-speed durability while minimizing weight and improving ride uniformity. The lower sidewall features Single Strand Beads for improved wheel fit and Wheel Flange Guards to help protect alloy wheels from accidental curb damage.
NOTE: Sumitomo reassessed the HTR Z II line’s UTQG ratings in 2009. This resulted in tires featuring the same design, materials and manufacturing methods previously rated 220 AA A to be assigned UTQG ratings of 360 A A. Sumitomo has confirmed that regardless of the branded UTQG ratings, all HTR Z II tires are fully compatible and may be mixed individually or in pairs as necessary."
I loved these tires, and I'm not dissing them in any way, but I am saying that these tires MAY not be appropriate for folks who live in areas that see below freezing temps.
Have you checked your Sumitomo's description on the Sumitomo site? I bought a California car with Sumitomo's on it.(the HTRZ II's) Love the car; love the way it handles; loved the tires. One of the last below freezing days we had this winter was also the day of our local GTG. I looked over the car and the right rear tire was low so I aired it up. As I was doing that, I was hearing a sound like ice cracking. I figured I must have had water in the treads when I pulled it inot the garage and it had formed into ice. By the time I got to the GTG, the whole inside of the tire was a expanded (like a small knot but really big) I had to borrow a tire/wheel to get home.
Found this on the TireRack website about these tires:
"The HTR Z II (High Technology Radials-2nd generation) is Sumitomo's Ultra High Performance Summer tire developed for the drivers of sports cars, sporty coupes and performance sedans. The HTR Z II is designed to blend a unique appearance, dry and wet performance and ride comfort. Like all summer tires, the HTR Z II is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.
The HTR Z II molds a high performance tread compound featuring ultra micro carbon technology and silica-based rubber into a directional pattern that features wide, arched tread blocks to enhance dry road traction and handling. A circumferential center rain groove and multi-direction water channels resist hydroplaning and enhance wet traction. The tire's internal structure features two steel belts with spirally wrapped Jointless Nylon Band reinforcement to enhance high-speed durability while minimizing weight and improving ride uniformity. The lower sidewall features Single Strand Beads for improved wheel fit and Wheel Flange Guards to help protect alloy wheels from accidental curb damage.
NOTE: Sumitomo reassessed the HTR Z II line’s UTQG ratings in 2009. This resulted in tires featuring the same design, materials and manufacturing methods previously rated 220 AA A to be assigned UTQG ratings of 360 A A. Sumitomo has confirmed that regardless of the branded UTQG ratings, all HTR Z II tires are fully compatible and may be mixed individually or in pairs as necessary."
I loved these tires, and I'm not dissing them in any way, but I am saying that these tires MAY not be appropriate for folks who live in areas that see below freezing temps.
06-08-2011, 04:37 PM
#4
Drifting
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Good point.....
I have not driven the car in the winter months, but just before I put it away last season we did have a rather cold spell where the car was on the road.
I will be keeping my eye on that one tire for sure now.
I have not driven the car in the winter months, but just before I put it away last season we did have a rather cold spell where the car was on the road.
I will be keeping my eye on that one tire for sure now.
06-08-2011, 06:24 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Road Noise
My new Michelins are not quiet, but quieter than the Pirelli P Zeros that were there. The Zeros have a wider tread band on the inside of the tread. The PPI noted the tires were a little noisy when I bought it - seemed to come from the rear. Wear looked even. The point is YMMV re noise. Tread pattern, pressure will affect same.