Water spots - PITA
04-28-2011, 03:27 AM
#16
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Sean, there is a big difference between rotary buffers and the dual/action polishers. Using a D/A like the Porter Cable 7424 or the Griot's 6" polisher, and a mild polishing compound, you would have to work very, very hard to do any damage.
Rotary's are a different animal: when you use one, you need to be scared. With a D/A, the predominant emotion is bored. Which is good-- but it is a lot easier and more effective than hand buffing.
You mentioned that this was a respray, does it show any orange peel? If so, then it hasn't been color-sanded or rubbed out, and there should be plenty of clear left. If it has been flattened and polished, then you don't know how much clear is over the base.
Rotary's are a different animal: when you use one, you need to be scared. With a D/A, the predominant emotion is bored. Which is good-- but it is a lot easier and more effective than hand buffing.
You mentioned that this was a respray, does it show any orange peel? If so, then it hasn't been color-sanded or rubbed out, and there should be plenty of clear left. If it has been flattened and polished, then you don't know how much clear is over the base.
-Sean
05-17-2011, 02:59 AM
#17
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Bumping up,
apparently, slight water etching fades away with time. The spots are gone now, all traces of them, and I did not ever manage to polish them out by hand. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? Something about paint I never realized could happen.
-Sean
apparently, slight water etching fades away with time. The spots are gone now, all traces of them, and I did not ever manage to polish them out by hand. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? Something about paint I never realized could happen.
-Sean
05-17-2011, 09:32 AM
#18
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Not sure about fading over time, but I will contribute that I had excellent results with Griots products and their random orbital.
My 928 had pretty nasty water marks on the glass (paint was fine and must have been detailed before I purchased, but the glass was baaaaddd). I clayed the glass then polished with Griots specific glass polishing goop...worked a charm.
More recently I polished and waxed the paint on our daily driver ('06 Mini Cooper S). The paint was looking really bad on the car, including a badly etched spot from bird poo. I had tried other products on the bird poo spot and had come to terms with the idea that it was a permanent feature, but now its gone.
YMMV
My 928 had pretty nasty water marks on the glass (paint was fine and must have been detailed before I purchased, but the glass was baaaaddd). I clayed the glass then polished with Griots specific glass polishing goop...worked a charm.
More recently I polished and waxed the paint on our daily driver ('06 Mini Cooper S). The paint was looking really bad on the car, including a badly etched spot from bird poo. I had tried other products on the bird poo spot and had come to terms with the idea that it was a permanent feature, but now its gone.
YMMV
05-17-2011, 11:34 AM
#19
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I have some TERRIBLE water marks on my hood/fenders.
At it's worst - the entire top half of the hood was so spotted it was pretty much a dull white everywhere.
I tried (and a lot of these were just small test spots)......
Clay bar - made it nice and smooth, but did nothing to remove the spots
Vinegar - nothing
Toothpaste (both gel and paste) - nothing
All kinds of different wax - just made it shiny
100% Rubbing alcohol - nothing
Acetone - nothing
I did find that if I rubbed Armor All on the spotted area, the paint would turn back to red, but as soon as the Armor All dried up, the spots came back. The paint is DRY. If I pushed my finger into my forehead and then placed my finger on the hood - the oil in my skin would bring the paint back to red - I just didn't have enough forehead oil.
It was at this point I tried rubbing the hood with Lithium Grease - yes, Lithium Grease. Ya know what? It worked!! Thing is, you have to rub and rub and rub and buff and buff to get it into the paint enough to turn the color back to red, but you can't rub too hard or it will come off.....and after you are done, the whole area looks as if you applied 1000 coats of wax. From 5 feet away it looked perfect - but as you got close, you could see a slight "filmy" look to it.
I tried pretty much everything.
I was about to try CLR (Calcium/Lime/Rust) remover and Brasso, but decided to take it to a shop.
They buffed it pretty nicely, but the spots came back within weeks.
Garth S eventually recommended a fella in his neck of the woods and he did an amazing job. His work lasted almost two years - but the spots are back.
Before I put the car away last year, I got pretty good with an orbital polisher I borrowed from a guy who has a body shop. I was using either 3M cutting polish or Mothers fine cut final stage stuff. With some work and time, I was able to get it back to red, but it would only last about a month.
I was using cheap Simonize pads last year. This year I bought some professional waffle-style cutting pads and will be hitting the spots with the orbital and a good cutting paste.
If that doesn't work, I will try my luck with this Malco Water Spot Remover I bought to remove slight paint over-spray on the front windshield. The guy who sold it to me said to test it on the paint, but he said he had used it on paint and it worked. This would be pretty much a last resort if the buffing with the correct pads doesn't work.
"Malco Water Spot Remover is a creamy, pumice-reinforced cleaner. It will remove mineral deposits and stains from uncoated glass and other hard surfaces such as chrome, tile and stainless steel."
As you can see, it is not recommended for paint, but at this point - I'm looking at a re-spray anyway, so it's worth a try.
At it's worst - the entire top half of the hood was so spotted it was pretty much a dull white everywhere.
I tried (and a lot of these were just small test spots)......
Clay bar - made it nice and smooth, but did nothing to remove the spots
Vinegar - nothing
Toothpaste (both gel and paste) - nothing
All kinds of different wax - just made it shiny
100% Rubbing alcohol - nothing
Acetone - nothing
I did find that if I rubbed Armor All on the spotted area, the paint would turn back to red, but as soon as the Armor All dried up, the spots came back. The paint is DRY. If I pushed my finger into my forehead and then placed my finger on the hood - the oil in my skin would bring the paint back to red - I just didn't have enough forehead oil.
It was at this point I tried rubbing the hood with Lithium Grease - yes, Lithium Grease. Ya know what? It worked!! Thing is, you have to rub and rub and rub and buff and buff to get it into the paint enough to turn the color back to red, but you can't rub too hard or it will come off.....and after you are done, the whole area looks as if you applied 1000 coats of wax. From 5 feet away it looked perfect - but as you got close, you could see a slight "filmy" look to it.
I tried pretty much everything.
I was about to try CLR (Calcium/Lime/Rust) remover and Brasso, but decided to take it to a shop.
They buffed it pretty nicely, but the spots came back within weeks.
Garth S eventually recommended a fella in his neck of the woods and he did an amazing job. His work lasted almost two years - but the spots are back.
Before I put the car away last year, I got pretty good with an orbital polisher I borrowed from a guy who has a body shop. I was using either 3M cutting polish or Mothers fine cut final stage stuff. With some work and time, I was able to get it back to red, but it would only last about a month.
I was using cheap Simonize pads last year. This year I bought some professional waffle-style cutting pads and will be hitting the spots with the orbital and a good cutting paste.
If that doesn't work, I will try my luck with this Malco Water Spot Remover I bought to remove slight paint over-spray on the front windshield. The guy who sold it to me said to test it on the paint, but he said he had used it on paint and it worked. This would be pretty much a last resort if the buffing with the correct pads doesn't work.
"Malco Water Spot Remover is a creamy, pumice-reinforced cleaner. It will remove mineral deposits and stains from uncoated glass and other hard surfaces such as chrome, tile and stainless steel."
As you can see, it is not recommended for paint, but at this point - I'm looking at a re-spray anyway, so it's worth a try.
05-17-2011, 05:09 PM
#20
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Jeff, it's starting to sound like you have dead paint. Dead old paint gets permanent staining embedded deep down, and then you can polish the surface but it just comes back up. It's weird, but I have something like this on my 944 in one small area.
My 928, meanwhile, does not have dead paint, so water spots tend to fade away rather than get worse or become boomerangs.
You'll be so much happier after you paint your 928.
-Sean
My 928, meanwhile, does not have dead paint, so water spots tend to fade away rather than get worse or become boomerangs.
You'll be so much happier after you paint your 928.
-Sean
05-17-2011, 06:08 PM
#21
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Sean--
Try a clay bar, with a thick foam of Dawn dishwashing detergent. The clay floats on a film of the detergent, and should strip away most if not all of the crust without damaging the paint. Using abrasives/compounds is a problem, since the calcium is a lot harder than the paint. You'll run out of paint and still have the deposits.
joejoe--
Long ago, in my wilder years, I had a neighbor who did that a few times until her sprinklers no longer worked and her lawn was dead.
Try a clay bar, with a thick foam of Dawn dishwashing detergent. The clay floats on a film of the detergent, and should strip away most if not all of the crust without damaging the paint. Using abrasives/compounds is a problem, since the calcium is a lot harder than the paint. You'll run out of paint and still have the deposits.
joejoe--
Long ago, in my wilder years, I had a neighbor who did that a few times until her sprinklers no longer worked and her lawn was dead.
Use lots of water or Dawn with it..
05-17-2011, 06:42 PM
#22
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Jeff--
That stuff you have at the bottom of your post is a fine pumice cleaner for hard surfaces like glass. Stainless and aluminum are not hard surfaces, nor are porcelain sinks and basins made in the last ten years or so. Use this stuff and you are grinding on the surface and will scar it. Before you start using products like this, visit a local pro detailer and find out how much paint you have left. There's a paint thickness meter that they should have, and it takes seconds to give you a number. That same detailer might prescribe a recovery protocol for you, or offer a recovery process that they would do if recovery is possible. Much cheaper than a repaint if there's enough paint left on the car. If you insist on going the DIY route, take the thickness number and a few pictures of the paint condition and post to the detailing forum here on RL. The group there includes professionals as well as some very experienced DIY/home experts. You'll get good advice there.
Most single-stage paint jobs that have seriously deteriorated but still have some paint left can be recovered at least partially. Clear-coated paint that's damaged into the color is a total loss at that point, with strip and repiant the only option.
Meanwhile, keep the acetone away from the car. It's worthless for removing surface defects, and will remove paint quite readily. There's no organic solvent that will do what you want.
That stuff you have at the bottom of your post is a fine pumice cleaner for hard surfaces like glass. Stainless and aluminum are not hard surfaces, nor are porcelain sinks and basins made in the last ten years or so. Use this stuff and you are grinding on the surface and will scar it. Before you start using products like this, visit a local pro detailer and find out how much paint you have left. There's a paint thickness meter that they should have, and it takes seconds to give you a number. That same detailer might prescribe a recovery protocol for you, or offer a recovery process that they would do if recovery is possible. Much cheaper than a repaint if there's enough paint left on the car. If you insist on going the DIY route, take the thickness number and a few pictures of the paint condition and post to the detailing forum here on RL. The group there includes professionals as well as some very experienced DIY/home experts. You'll get good advice there.
Most single-stage paint jobs that have seriously deteriorated but still have some paint left can be recovered at least partially. Clear-coated paint that's damaged into the color is a total loss at that point, with strip and repiant the only option.
Meanwhile, keep the acetone away from the car. It's worthless for removing surface defects, and will remove paint quite readily. There's no organic solvent that will do what you want.
05-17-2011, 07:17 PM
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Here is what the hood currently looks like......my car is red, by the way - not orange. Silly camera.
Once it comes out of storage later this week, I'll buff it and get it back to red.
Here is my roof - which also goes "pink" if not buffed - I can get the hood looking close to this....
Here is the rest of the paint - not in bad shape, but a full paint job is in the future.....
05-17-2011, 07:36 PM
#28
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That stuff you have at the bottom of your post is a fine pumice cleaner for hard surfaces like glass. Stainless and aluminum are not hard surfaces, nor are porcelain sinks and basins made in the last ten years or so. Use this stuff and you are grinding on the surface and will scar it.
I really think using the proper buffing pad will make a huge difference - I'll post "after" pics later this week.
There is one very small "burn" spot on the very top of one fender from when Garth's friend did his good work - and that small spot is literally
the most red spot on the car. The surrounding paint looks much darker/dirtier. The burned spot looks "clean" (and it is very smooth). I forgot to get a pic of it, but will post one tomorrow.
05-17-2011, 07:40 PM
#29
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----
The prescription on the paint is likely going to include polishing with a series of abrasives that get gradually finer. First cuts will take the paint surface with the damage, and expose a fresh paint layer underneath. You'll continue with finer poishes and a glaze to fix the damage done by the coarser compounds and polishes. Just hope there's enough paint left.
Take a look at the thread that cover's James M's red Euro85 rescue. The recovery included a serious amount of paint restoration. There are a couple paint shots where half the hood is as-found and the other is shown during the treatment. The difference is very impressive. The car was in my care for six months while James got his ownership logistics worked out at home, so I had a real good look at the paint when it left. I'm sure there are many hours of attention in that paint now, but it's a real eye-catcher now as a result of all that hard work.
05-17-2011, 07:40 PM
#30
Done With Sidepatch
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Jeff, if you're considering new paint then you have nothing to loose. You should do a little reading and a visit to eshine.ca is not a bad place to start. They have some basic articles that may help you. They also have a wide variety of quality products for your issue.
If you had a pro detailer, like MoeMistry, near you then I would consult him (her). If not, read up...you may be able to fix that issue without paint.
Best of luck!
If you had a pro detailer, like MoeMistry, near you then I would consult him (her). If not, read up...you may be able to fix that issue without paint.
Best of luck!