Any advice before start a 928 in three years?
04-03-2011, 01:35 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
WARNING.... DANGER>>>>hopefully your engine isnt Running ....
Before you turn the key please remove the fuel lines you have and replace them with the correct fuel injection hose ( it has 12 strands of thread inside it )
REMOVE THE UNCLAMPED FUEL FILTERS
You should not have any fuel filters installed in the feed and return lines at the right side of the engine
I wouldnt be surprised to hear that you had an engine fire and the hose slipped off the fuel filter. or it exploded!.
Note fuel line pressures will run from 40 to 90 PSI the clear filters are not made for that
Also you need a new green wire for continued long term running,
and fit a hot post cover from a 1988 S4
Before you turn the key please remove the fuel lines you have and replace them with the correct fuel injection hose ( it has 12 strands of thread inside it )
REMOVE THE UNCLAMPED FUEL FILTERS
You should not have any fuel filters installed in the feed and return lines at the right side of the engine
I wouldnt be surprised to hear that you had an engine fire and the hose slipped off the fuel filter. or it exploded!.
Note fuel line pressures will run from 40 to 90 PSI the clear filters are not made for that
Also you need a new green wire for continued long term running,
and fit a hot post cover from a 1988 S4
MrMerlin, I have just read your message about the fuel hoses. Well, don't worry I'm not going to switch on the car yet.
As Dave also asked me I'm going to post some pictures of the engine bay without intake hoses, for you to take a look and see. I suppose previous owner replaced hoses not using the correct ones, etc. (he used the car that way) Also read your advice of changing the green wire.
As soon as I make new and better pictures of the whole bay I will post them here too. Hope the mess isn't much bigger than the fuel hoses.
In the meantime, I will repost in this thread the pictures I did yesterday for the cables identification to keep the conversation about hoses/filters, and any other mess here.
In any case I will go slowly and step by step. Now I understand better the point #6 on the list about 'CIRCULATE FUEL BY JUMPERING THE FUEL PUMP FOR 30min AND LOOK FOR ANY LEAKS'. Also the extinguisher at hand advice.
As said I will take better pictures of the engine bay and I will post them here for you all to take a closer look. About the hoses, I'm sure many doubts will arise about how to proceed, I will also post them here too. Thanks.
04-03-2011, 08:57 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
That's why I thought a pic/s of the complete engine bay would be a good idea ... things are not factory in that engine bay, and everything needs to be given the once over before you start it. Hopefully there aren't any other disasters waiting to happen.
04-03-2011, 09:15 PM
#33
Instructor
Thread Starter
Sure, no problem about that. I will take 5 or 6 large pictures of the engine bay to see what we have to check before going any further. The car has had two owners before me which are not too many, but in 31 years a lot of not qualified mechanics could have changed many things.
I will inspect the fuel lines with the WSM and PET at hand and ask here any doubt before ordering original lines to Porsche.
I will inspect the fuel lines with the WSM and PET at hand and ask here any doubt before ordering original lines to Porsche.
04-03-2011, 11:39 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
I'm not totally convinced that those hoses and filters are connected to the fuel system (although I can't think of what else they could be connected to) as they seem too far forward, and I would have thought they would have blown off by now at first prime of the pump. I guess the previous owner may have just put them on and done nothing after that?
The stock connections only have short flexible sections on the inner right hand guard, which come up to hard lines with unions which then sweep around to the fuel distributor (flow to distributor and return to the tank).
The following two photos show the fuel lines.
The first photo shows what is under the spider intake, with the two red arrows showing the unions on the end of the solid fuel lines which sweep around to the fuel distributor.
In the second photo the two red arrows show the lines on the inner guard which connect to those previous two unions on the motor, with the white arrows showing the flexible sections of fuel line which should be replaced on an old car. You can see the flexible lines in this photo are perished and need replacement.
Check these lines first, and then check that all the lines going from your fuel distributor (solid lines) are OK. I can't see why anyone would replace any of these hard lines with hose and filters ... but you never know! Follow those hoses and check where they connect, and post the photos, and we can go from there and sort the mystery out.
The stock connections only have short flexible sections on the inner right hand guard, which come up to hard lines with unions which then sweep around to the fuel distributor (flow to distributor and return to the tank).
The following two photos show the fuel lines.
The first photo shows what is under the spider intake, with the two red arrows showing the unions on the end of the solid fuel lines which sweep around to the fuel distributor.
In the second photo the two red arrows show the lines on the inner guard which connect to those previous two unions on the motor, with the white arrows showing the flexible sections of fuel line which should be replaced on an old car. You can see the flexible lines in this photo are perished and need replacement.
Check these lines first, and then check that all the lines going from your fuel distributor (solid lines) are OK. I can't see why anyone would replace any of these hard lines with hose and filters ... but you never know! Follow those hoses and check where they connect, and post the photos, and we can go from there and sort the mystery out.
04-04-2011, 03:15 AM
#35
Team Owner
the filters look dry so maybe the lines have not been pumped up
04-04-2011, 03:23 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Yeah they do ... certainly some creative plumbing has been done and maybe it was half done and they gave up. I've been trying to follow those lines in the photos but I can't make sense of them with the air tubes in place. It's going to be interesting to see what's been done.
04-04-2011, 05:25 AM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank you Dave for your good explanation of what I will find. With your photos and the pet diagrams I will try to follow the lines (also with the camera) and see what could be the mess down there. I have already removed the air tubes the other day for other task so I'll try to show the whole picture of those plastic hoses and filters for you to follow them easily.
I was going to ask you why somebody could have installed those lines and filters. If it could have been a cheap solution for replacing something, but in your message I see that you can't understand it too. So we will have to wait to see the whole picture to guess why it has been done.
The bad news is that the car is not at my home as you know so I need to have some free time before I can go where it is, take a look and make some pictures. As soon as I do it, I'll post them here.
I was going to ask you why somebody could have installed those lines and filters. If it could have been a cheap solution for replacing something, but in your message I see that you can't understand it too. So we will have to wait to see the whole picture to guess why it has been done.
The bad news is that the car is not at my home as you know so I need to have some free time before I can go where it is, take a look and make some pictures. As soon as I do it, I'll post them here.
04-04-2011, 10:22 AM
#38
Team Owner
my guess is that the original fuel lines were removed and then lost,
so the new lines were just routed to the fitting,
it wouldnt surprise me to find the hard lines cut on the engine based on where the hoses are running , New pictures will tell the story
so the new lines were just routed to the fitting,
it wouldnt surprise me to find the hard lines cut on the engine based on where the hoses are running , New pictures will tell the story
04-04-2011, 11:53 AM
#39
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks Mrmerlin, I promise I will post better pictures as soon as I can. As you said they will tell the whole story.
Looking in my computer at the office I have found this picture of the engine. It is a picture taken by the previous owner _I think years before selling it_ so it DOESN'T REPRESENT THE ACTUAL STATE OF THE CAR. The hoses mess could have been done later so... Also from this angle and with the air tubes in the middle there is not much to see.
In any case I thought of posting it while we wait for the detailed and updated pictures. With your trained eye maybe you see more strange things in there (hope not many more things). Or parts to focus in the new pictures...
Looking in my computer at the office I have found this picture of the engine. It is a picture taken by the previous owner _I think years before selling it_ so it DOESN'T REPRESENT THE ACTUAL STATE OF THE CAR. The hoses mess could have been done later so... Also from this angle and with the air tubes in the middle there is not much to see.
In any case I thought of posting it while we wait for the detailed and updated pictures. With your trained eye maybe you see more strange things in there (hope not many more things). Or parts to focus in the new pictures...
04-04-2011, 12:38 PM
#40
Team Owner
in the picture posted you can see the fuel lines snaking under the right intake tube.
If your cross bar looks like the one posted some paint stripper and metal polish will make it sparkle,
a coat of wax will keep it from corroding,
also swap out the cross brace bolts for the correct ones,
as these are corroded and may be hitting on the underside of the hood
If your cross bar looks like the one posted some paint stripper and metal polish will make it sparkle,
a coat of wax will keep it from corroding,
also swap out the cross brace bolts for the correct ones,
as these are corroded and may be hitting on the underside of the hood
04-05-2011, 05:48 AM
#41
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hi, I haven't been able to go where the car is yet, but I ask my brother to take some pictures of the engine bay to check those hoses and send them back to me.
The good news is that those hoses doesn't seem to carry any fuel. They both are ending where the filters are and then they are not going anywhere. Could they be carrying carrying air?, I mean gases from the exhaust to the atmosphere or something like that?.
Here are some pictures:
Thanks.
The good news is that those hoses doesn't seem to carry any fuel. They both are ending where the filters are and then they are not going anywhere. Could they be carrying carrying air?, I mean gases from the exhaust to the atmosphere or something like that?.
Here are some pictures:
Thanks.
04-05-2011, 06:48 AM
#42
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: hurleyville,NY
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looks like they're hooked up to the A/C siloniod, for now you can pull those off and plug them. As for you're fuel lines you can see in the last picture they're in there, look between the oil fill and you small fuel line to the cold start and WUR, just under the black intake boot. when u get the air filter off you will see them clear as day.
Good luck
Good luck
04-05-2011, 07:19 AM
#44
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks Steve, sure that helps. The important thing is that those rubber hoses and filters are not related with the fuel lines. So, it looks like the 'creative plumbing' (as Dave call it) has been done with the A/C.
The important thing is that the fuel hard lines seems to be there as you mark them. In any case after jumpering the fuel pump at the relay console and let the fuel circulate through the lines, I will check them carefully to see if there is any leak through the whole line.
Well A/C is secondary... don't know if it will work. As Brad W. told me in other thread, the unplugged three cables and the loosen clamp at the cross bar here:
...are also related with the A/C. So probably the a/c is not in good shape. But as said, that is secondary.
The important thing is that the fuel hard lines seems to be there as you mark them. In any case after jumpering the fuel pump at the relay console and let the fuel circulate through the lines, I will check them carefully to see if there is any leak through the whole line.
Well A/C is secondary... don't know if it will work. As Brad W. told me in other thread, the unplugged three cables and the loosen clamp at the cross bar here:
...are also related with the A/C. So probably the a/c is not in good shape. But as said, that is secondary.
04-05-2011, 09:50 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
Those hoses are definitely from the AC solenoid. In your older photo of the engine compartment you can see they were actually hooked up to the solenoid clamped to the crossbrace. Beats me why they put filters on them ... just plug them until the aircon is restored.
Here is a pic of one of the hoses on mine before I pulled the motor ... with the red arrow showing the line from the upper tee piece connected to the AC solenoid on the crossbrace as it should (yours just goes to a filter).
The two wires in your last photo are likely to be earth (brown) and active with the right angled connector .. which would have gone to the solenoid (haven't checked wiring diagram). The white wire looks non factory so it will be worth following that to see where it goes and report back.
The fuel lines should still be checked for soundness before you start it, and still follow the same general procedure. Your flexible lines are very likely to be cracked and perished (just like the ones in my photo - white arrows), so would be a good idea to replace them with new ones.
Here is a pic of one of the hoses on mine before I pulled the motor ... with the red arrow showing the line from the upper tee piece connected to the AC solenoid on the crossbrace as it should (yours just goes to a filter).
The two wires in your last photo are likely to be earth (brown) and active with the right angled connector .. which would have gone to the solenoid (haven't checked wiring diagram). The white wire looks non factory so it will be worth following that to see where it goes and report back.
The fuel lines should still be checked for soundness before you start it, and still follow the same general procedure. Your flexible lines are very likely to be cracked and perished (just like the ones in my photo - white arrows), so would be a good idea to replace them with new ones.