Speedtoys

88 S4 auto.


Finally stopped raining, and I have the gumption to go start finding out why my windows dont work.

Drivers side: Only consistently works when its warm out
Pass side: Ive never gotten it to work since purchase month ago.


I pulled the two switches, and cleaned the contacts. They were not that bad, and seemed OK before, but definite pass 12v to the right places now.


Ive tested them in the car..red has 12v, push the switch one way or the other and the appropriate green or black wire gets 12v as it should.


Wheres the next step? I might add, that the relay marked 'window relay' is always WARM when they key is on. ???


When the drivers side window does work, its not consistent at the speed at which it will operate, I have noticed that.

safulop

I've been told that the motors are durable, but the regulators can give problems of the sort you describe.

Regulators are quite a bit cheaper than motors, I believe.

Landseer

Motors, tracks, switches, relays and wiring can all give trouble.

Where to start? The search feature is where I'd start, honestly.

Some really good stuff. (embedded search link stopped working so I deleted it)

Speedtoys

LS:

Im lost in a cyclone of 'window' related searches...was hoping that the warm relay would add something quick to the next step.

Havent found an always hot relay symptom anywhere yet.

Landseer

To me, that says the door covers need to come apart and R&R needs to be done on both the frame tracks and the motors.

Mechanical drag and electrical conductivity problems, both within the motors and door frames, are probably the heat causes.

These cars are notorious for needing that R&R.

Jadz928 had a pretty good thread on this. So did WallyP a while back.

Speedtoys

But..why would that relay be hot -all- of the time, even when the window switches are unplugged and not asking anything to do any work at all?

I take what you're saying....as trying to move the windows, is creating the heat.

rexpontius

relay will always be warm (not hot), because it is engaged with the ignition on.

Switches seem pretty durable to me.

Start by measuring the wires at the window motors in the doors. If you get a good 12v+ and ground, the problem is in the motor. If not, the problem in in the wiring.

Most problems are in the wiring going to the doors (I had 3 faulty wires in the drivers side door of my 86.5: - central locking, power window, door light).

Especially the the intermittent faults are likely caused by broken wiring. Easily solved though, by cutting the wire in the car and running some new wire to the doors (make sure to get the same color an gauge wire).
And off course solder the wires, do NOT use crappy connectors/splicers.

Removing the window motor is pretty easy, just a few bolts.
Also use some tape to hold the window in place, when removing the motor, otherwise is will fall down into the door.

The motor is a beautiful piece of engineering and can be disassembled / cleaned/ repaired pretty easily. Very unlike the disposable kind of parts you find in modern cars.

good luck.

Cheers
Michel

sendarius

When you say "hot" do you mean temperature wise, or always has voltage?

If it is high temperature, then there is current flowing to somewhere, and probably enough of it to flatten a battery pretty quickly.

If you mean "always has voltage", check the door open pin-switches. In my US spec car, the windows work after ignition off and key out, until I open a door.

Landseer

I don't know.
Swap it with another & make sure each of the window switches is centered and not activated.

You should have done this already, but if you haven't gotten to it yet, pull the CE panel, clean all the contacts and look for melting. Its a pretty important step even on a supposedly sorted car.

I've found melted wires behind two panels that caused all kinds of carnage.
And dirty contacts can also convert electrical energy to heat.

You can start on either end, windows or switches, or at the middle at the CE panel. But what I'm finding is even if I solve one part of the equation, the next part fails, then the next part.

I've become more efficient just going through entire subassemblies.

Your window is slow. It all needs to come apart for cleaning and inspection and lube and sealing.

Speedtoys

Hot as in temperature.

Two things:

1) I'll turn on the key for 10min tomorrow when I get home, and get a heat gun reading.
2) I'll pull door panels tomorrow eve as well, and start diagnosing from there.

Hilton

If you're starting to dig into electrical issues..

first step should be to clean *all* the ground points, and all the contacts on the CE panel (remove the panel and clean on the bench - it comes out easily).

Probably won't solve your problem, but they'll make electrical troubleshooting more consistent, and reduce current losses due to corrosion.

Its possible to rebuild the window motors - haven't tried yet, but its on my list of things to do to my 89 while the interior is apart. I just ordered new window guides, so will rebuild the motor while I have the whole window assembly apart for cleaning off the 25 year old caked grease.

Here's the ground points for an S4:

Speedtoys

Yup..im thought about 1/2 of the ground points so far.

CE panel was to come out today..rain postponed that this weekend..as I wasnt able to dump 1/2 of the garage out to re-assemble it.

jon928se

Cleaning the tracks that the wheels roll in on the regulators will speed up the windows dramatically. Next stop the gearboxes on the motors. Unless they are completely caked up to buggery I wouldn't have thought they'ld stop the window working completely though.

My next avenue of exploration would be the switches themselves - plenty of resources in Nichols on this one. I would think a switch that has iffy contacts could be enough to make the window not work at all in combination with the above and also possibly keep the window controller warm if the motor is stalled.

PS Hilton you need to get the wheels and brakes back on the 89 so you can register it before you look at superficial stuff like interior and windows. Do you need a hand this week ? May be free on thursday. I may have a real job again soon.

M. Requin

From my own experience: 1. the commutator in the window motor can be worn beyond repair, and/or the stator can be partially melted; 2. the grease in the gearbox can be "frozen"; and 3. the window switches can be worn to the point of no contact when pressed. The latter can be determined by removing the switch cover (carefully, so you don't break one of the plastic flanges) which will reveal the two little copper squares standing on end which press the switch contacts together. Press on one with something of suitable size, and if the window works, you have found one of the problems.

James Bailey

I recall some comments about the grease in the transmissions getting caked and hardened from lack of use....... that some have opened them up cleaned them and put in new grease. Over the years I sold hundreds of window motors, they are a common failure item. While you are in there check the small white plastic roller on the end of the regulator they sometimes get flat spots and make the window operation less smooth or fall out completely. Window regulators almost NEVER fail.