Surcharger kit recommendation
#106
^^^Just what I was hoping to hear. I'm already running Ken's chips with an S4 regulator and it's got an x-pipe and free flow duals after that. It's gonna be a wild ride once I go for boost!
I just need to see if I can't get some time up in Tim's neck of the woods for some good dyno time. I would think the tune will be pretty spot on from him though out of the box. I would like it optimized however.
I just need to see if I can't get some time up in Tim's neck of the woods for some good dyno time. I would think the tune will be pretty spot on from him though out of the box. I would like it optimized however.
#107
Captain Obvious
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,846
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From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
I'm the proud owner of that contraption!
Is this an optimal setup? No.
Am I leaving hp on the table? For sure.
Do I want to spend $2K on a Shakrtuner? Nope!
Is the car fast enough as it is? It sure is to me, good enough for high 12sec.
Is it a safe setup? I think it is. Always runs at the border of rich.
Do I want all the hp that this setup can give? No. Having a nice safety margin is wroth more to me than a couple dozen horsepower.
Is it possible to boost a 928 for less money than is cost to build my setup? I don't think so.
Do I want to line it up with Ted (Cosmo Kramer) to see who is faster? ABSOLUTELY!
#108
Hi
I'm getting keen and am thinking about whether to seriously consider commiting some $$ to a supercharger kit. I'm expected to have to bring the kit in from the US so would appreciate info on US supplied kits. So..
A few questions for anyone prepared to provide info to me.
How risky is it putting a supercharger on to the car - will I see a big hole in the block?
How far do you need to go - does it become an endless series up hardware upgrades, or can you truely buy a kit install and not need to do anything else ( bar general madness of wanting to do more etc).
The last biggie - any recommendations as to proven kits - ease of installation, price, quality etc?
As always info and thoughts greatly appreciated.
I'm getting keen and am thinking about whether to seriously consider commiting some $$ to a supercharger kit. I'm expected to have to bring the kit in from the US so would appreciate info on US supplied kits. So..
A few questions for anyone prepared to provide info to me.
How risky is it putting a supercharger on to the car - will I see a big hole in the block?
How far do you need to go - does it become an endless series up hardware upgrades, or can you truely buy a kit install and not need to do anything else ( bar general madness of wanting to do more etc).
The last biggie - any recommendations as to proven kits - ease of installation, price, quality etc?
As always info and thoughts greatly appreciated.
#109
4. The Murf SC is a Vortech which is self-contained oil lubricated (no oil lines), has somewhere between 73% and 78% efficiency (can't tell for sure because I can't find the details for a V3 T-trim unit), is gear driven, and is rated for pretty large engines (bigger than mine; again, can't find the exact details for this unit).
I have been told the down side to the gts sc I did was the lobe seperation angle of the cams...gt cams much better, but if you are going the sc route I would be tempted to get custom cams from simard(gundrilled) with greg brown and simards reco's on grind....oh that would rock!!!!!
The kits are supplied with a tune that should run well, make good power, and be safe for the engine. Cars can vary to some extent though, expecially if other modifications have been made to them other than the installation of one of the kits. A custom tune might gain some additional power, even if it's not absolutely necessary. There have been cars that have gone up to Green Bay from different areas of the country for custom tuning, a kit installation, or both.
Last edited by Z; 02-10-2011 at 06:46 AM.
#110
Just to throw one other thing out there, has anyone done anything on a 928 with a Procharger unit? They sound like they combine a lot of the best of both the Vortech and Raptor:
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
#111
For me, I would much rather have one that is not self contained.
My D1 Procharger on my corvette has around 80,000 miles on it, nary a problem.
My D1 Procharger on my corvette has around 80,000 miles on it, nary a problem.
Just to throw one other thing out there, has anyone done anything on a 928 with a Procharger unit? They sound like they combine a lot of the best of both the Vortech and Raptor:
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
#112
Seen alot of Prochargers at the drags some bigger units putting out 700+ hp.
Chevy is coming out with ZL1 Camaro in 2012 not sure what unit they are using.
6.2liter Supercharged probably will be another 11 second 1/4 mile street car from the factory.
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1/...aro_zl1#image1
Chevy is coming out with ZL1 Camaro in 2012 not sure what unit they are using.
6.2liter Supercharged probably will be another 11 second 1/4 mile street car from the factory.
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1/...aro_zl1#image1
#113
Again, you're wrong...
With the S4, you can adjust how much timing is taken out if it detects a knock event. I believe the maximum retard is 3° per event on that cylinder only, but you can dial it back to ~1° (it's been a while). If subsequent events occur, it will retard it further up to a maximum of 9°.
Then, based on a user-defined time period, timing is advanced in incremental stages per revolution.
In my case where I'm running a fairly aggressive tune, I think I have it take 1.3° of timing out per knock event and have it reintroduce timing within 1 second. I've never seen 9° of timing taken out. Usually it's 2.6° (2 knock events) occasionally it'll hit 4° (3 knock events) on the same cylinder. On my last full pull on the dyno, I think I had a total of 14 knock events - sadly on cyl #2 or #6. if memory serves.
Before getting the SharkTuner, I tried to use the Innovate data logger to record knock, but unfortunately it samples at 12samples/sec = too slow for knock count.
I thought PorKen came up with a knock light. Not sure it's accuracy, but it might be the best tool given the circumstances.
With the S4, you can adjust how much timing is taken out if it detects a knock event. I believe the maximum retard is 3° per event on that cylinder only, but you can dial it back to ~1° (it's been a while). If subsequent events occur, it will retard it further up to a maximum of 9°.
Then, based on a user-defined time period, timing is advanced in incremental stages per revolution.
In my case where I'm running a fairly aggressive tune, I think I have it take 1.3° of timing out per knock event and have it reintroduce timing within 1 second. I've never seen 9° of timing taken out. Usually it's 2.6° (2 knock events) occasionally it'll hit 4° (3 knock events) on the same cylinder. On my last full pull on the dyno, I think I had a total of 14 knock events - sadly on cyl #2 or #6. if memory serves.
Before getting the SharkTuner, I tried to use the Innovate data logger to record knock, but unfortunately it samples at 12samples/sec = too slow for knock count.
I thought PorKen came up with a knock light. Not sure it's accuracy, but it might be the best tool given the circumstances.
Perhaps Imre and I could build one of these and use it to check for inaudible knocks.
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0353
If professional tuners disable the knock sensors, how do they tune to ensure there are no inaudible knocks? Do they disable the sensors from changing the timing and just use them to data log knock counts?
#114
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Everything from how the shape of the curve changes with various adjustments, to the smoothness of the run, logging hp/torque changes with every small adjustment etc....
I'm sure in a tuning forum this would be argued like oil threads, it's just the advice from Ben Strader when I took his EFI 101 class.
Watching a guy like Luke @ Beyond Redline really puts things in perspective and is why I don't tune my own car. Usually he tunes solo, he doesn't mind it when I'm in the passenger seat running the Shark Tuner. I don't question when he glances back and forth between 9-10 dyno runs overlayed and my maps in the ST and starts making fine adjustments. In between runs we also crank up the eddie brakes for some "rolling road" tuning. In a perfect world this is all you would do. Problem is heat, not only for the dyno but my last tuning day we had to take a break to allow my exhaust manifolds to recover from the bright pink color they turned. It takes a lot of fans to simulate 100+mph down the highway.
$120 an hour? IMO that's a bargain for his experience and know how.
When Luke builds a 700 awhp Mitsu, there aren't any knock sensors.
A while ago I read a story about someone tuning their engine. Instead of disabling the knock sensors he simply unplugged them. Bad idea since on most cars since this automatically dials in full retard. Once he had his tune dialed in and re-connected them, the maps he made were all multiplied by whatever factor those knock sensors adjust for. I'm sure this isn't the case with every car, just an interesting story.
I've seen the aftermath of too many engines destroyed from a bad tune. The blame game always points to something else....too much boost, bad gas, faulty injector, hot day, I wore brown shoes......never the tune. But when you look at the details and break down the data (or lack thereof) a bad tune is high on the fault list.
#115
I know Carl started out with a Powerdyne supercharger that had an internal drive belt on his track car. It kept breaking those internal belts when he increased the boost, and he ended up switching to a model of supercharger with internal gears on that car
Besides, your quoting something you saw in like 2005. We traveled a lot of ground since then.
#116
For those of you that are unfamiliar with our Stage 2 kit for the Porsche 928:
Details are here: http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/32v_stage2.php
A sample of the installation instructions for this kit is available for download as well.
Our kits are shipped complete, with every nut, bolt and washer needed.
Here are some pictures:
Details are here: http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/32v_stage2.php
A sample of the installation instructions for this kit is available for download as well.
Our kits are shipped complete, with every nut, bolt and washer needed.
Here are some pictures:
#117
Just to throw one other thing out there, has anyone done anything on a 928 with a Procharger unit? They sound like they combine a lot of the best of both the Vortech and Raptor:
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
Gear driven
Self contained oiling in many models
Three year warranty
High boost
Billet case and impeller
CW or CCW
Pricing doesn't sound unreasonable either.
Of course, this is mostly from their web site. Is there a downside to these units?
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ler-30psi.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...tercooler.html
I've seen the aftermath of too many engines destroyed from a bad tune. The blame game always points to something else....too much boost, bad gas, faulty injector, hot day, I wore brown shoes......never the tune. But when you look at the details and break down the data (or lack thereof) a bad tune is high on the fault list.
#118
The 928 Motorsports Stage III kit
I finished development of our Stage 3 kit several months ago, but have not posted about it.
The hold-up has been the supercharger head unit. Our Stage 3 kit is designed for modified 5.0L, 5.4L and 6.0 Liter motors. Because of this, we specified a larger supercharger than what we offer in our Stage 1 and 2 kits at present.
The supercharger has been a collaborative effort with Raptor to make up the 1200 CFM that we want in the package we need. The new Raptor is built around our patented impeller (more on our performance impeller can be read about here: http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...neimpeller.php
But, the monsoon and flodding in Australia has hampered the manufacturing of these units for the time being.
I will post when I have a supply of parts, and final dyno results.
Here is what the finished Stage III kit looks like:
The hold-up has been the supercharger head unit. Our Stage 3 kit is designed for modified 5.0L, 5.4L and 6.0 Liter motors. Because of this, we specified a larger supercharger than what we offer in our Stage 1 and 2 kits at present.
The supercharger has been a collaborative effort with Raptor to make up the 1200 CFM that we want in the package we need. The new Raptor is built around our patented impeller (more on our performance impeller can be read about here: http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...neimpeller.php
But, the monsoon and flodding in Australia has hampered the manufacturing of these units for the time being.
I will post when I have a supply of parts, and final dyno results.
Here is what the finished Stage III kit looks like:
#119
Dont confuse development work with production parts, please. As you stated, this was on a) my car, and b) racing. Thats how we learned what a Powerdyne could and could not do. I had to know what pulley combinations were best so I could recommend pulleys sizes to my customers.
Besides, your quoting something you saw in like 2005. We traveled a lot of ground since then.
Besides, your quoting something you saw in like 2005. We traveled a lot of ground since then.
The new stage-3 sounds interesting. I see that the post above mentioning it does show the Electromotive engine management system being on your car. Is the Electromotive system going to be part of the stage-3 setup?