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928 vs 308 driving impressions

 
Old 09-08-2010, 03:37 AM
  #31  
RyanPerrella
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My dad had a 308 and I thought it was a heavy pig. I was less than impressed with it the one time I drove it.

The 928 is no flyweight, but the 308 is hardly driving nirvana
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:20 AM
  #32  
shmark
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Ah Ryan, always the one to blow sunshine and rainbows.

Those stats are interesting. That weight for the 308 sure looks high as a bunch of guys have weighed theirs right around 3000lbs, fully loaded without a driver. I'd love to see a similar comparison of the euro versions. I think they are equally close, just with a higher performance envelope compared to the US cars. I do know that from a dead stop I was able to stay with an S4, both of us getting on it pretty hard.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:33 AM
  #33  
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One impression I forgot to mention that might surprise people; the 308 shifts like butter compared to the 928. One thing I have always heard about Ferraris is that 2nd gear is very stiff when cold and most folks will skip to 3rd until everything is warmed up. Yes 2nd is a little bit stiffer, but on mine at least all 5 gears are very smooth with a nice mechanical click, and very usable from cold. It's a fingertip shifter, and just about impossible to miss a gear. My 928 on the other hand has a rebuilt early 5-speed and it requires a very firm fist to run through the gears...yeah I said fist, not hand. Skip-shifting isn't necessary, but sometimes 1st gear is just plain impossible at a stop. It does improve somewhat when it warms up, but it is the one thing I don't like about the car. Shifting is a lot more work than it should be, to the point that after a long run in the mountains my wrist was actually sore (I have carpal tunnel so it aggravates it). One thing I really want to do is put in a later gearbox as the rebuilt early box really detracts from the drive.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:04 AM
  #34  
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Mark definitely change out the gearbox. My GT requires two fingers to shift and I have no problem getting into any of the gears. It is a little vague for my tastes but not bad.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:08 PM
  #35  
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Yeah it was one of those WTH moments when I found out the PO had paid to put in a fresh rebuilt box but had chosen to put the early box in because it was slightly cheaper. I can't believe he did that. My last 928 had the later one and it shifted great.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:55 PM
  #36  
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I've got a 75 308 GT4 and an 87 S4 (auto).

the ferrari is alot more fun to drive, hands down. it's much lighter, but takes more work since there's no power steering. also, the front cuts away and with the big windshield, all you see is the pavement right in front of you.

the porsche is very teutonic, authoritivative, much more confortable to drive. love the seats in the S4.

the brakes on the S4 are a quantum level better than the ferrari. The sound: no comparison; I love the sound of carburated cars, those 4 webbers actually whistle when they start sucking air at high rpm. and the ferrari has something else lacking in the S4, the smell of gear oil heating up. it's intoxicating, and really kicks up the total driving experience.

interestingly I think my S4 corners better than my modern car (BMW M6 convertible), or at least's the S4 is more fun in a tight turn.

the difference between a sports car and a GT. I look at the ferrari as a 20k go cart with some standard car items. The S4 is a regular car with some pep, style and personality.

I also have a sting ray; great sound, but it's a bucket of bolts driving wise compared to the 308 and the S4, but still more fun thant the S4 because of noise, bouncy ride, carburator and greater sex appeal.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:13 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by redpathtribe View Post

928S - as tested $45,075
308qv - as tested $59,500

928S - test wt., 3520 lbs. - lbs/bhp (test wt.) 15.0
308qv - test wt., 3440 lbs. - lbs/bhp (test wt.) 14.9

928S - 4644cc, 234 Bhp @ 5500 rpm, Trq. - 263 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
308qv - 2926cc, 230 Bhp @ 6800 rpm, Trq. - 188 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm

928S - 0-60 - 7.0 sec, 1/4 mi - 15.4 sec, top speed 146 mph
308qv - 0-60 - 6.8 sec, 1/4 mi - 15.2 sec, top speed 142 mph

928S - lat. acc, g - 0.818, slalom speed - 58.4 mph
308qv - lat. acc, g - 0.811, slalom speed - 60.9 mph

928S - braking 60-0 - 156 ft, 80-0 - 280 ft
308qv - braking 60-0 - 153 ft, 80-0 - 262 ft

That's the highlights, but it's amazing how close they are in most of the categories.
Interesting stats on the cars. I also save lots of old car magazines relating to Porsche and Ferraris and I enjoy revisiting them every now and then.

Although there were some road test comparisions of 308s and 928s but I never thought of them as direct competitors. While both had V8s, I always felt the 308/328 were more similar in feel and quirkiness to older 911s.

The 911 and 308/328 have a nice layout for the main instrumentation, but every the hvac and other controls are scattered around, sometimes requiring one to take their eyes off the road. Also without power steering (at least until the 964) the cars feel heavy at low speeds and each has a heavy clutch. I also found the bottom hinged pedals awkward in the 911/930. The 308/328 and 911/930 are very involving and require a lot of attention when driving at high speeds. Each is fun to drive but for me neither is an ideal long distance cruiser. The 308/328 is a blast on winding roads where you can row through the gears and hear the motor singing behind you. Its definitely not practical and I wouldn't consider it for an everyday driver (although some on Fchat do) but its drivers seat is a great place to spend a few hours on a weekend.

As for the 928, perhaps a R&T article I believe from 1986 summed it up best. "Its the best Mercedes that Porsche ever built." I always considered the 928s competitors to be the MB 560SEC (although softer and less performance than a 928), an old M6, a Jaguar XJS, and maybe if $ were no object the Aston Martin V8s of the 1980s. All were relatively heavy cars, with powerful motors, made to transport 2 adults in comfort and 2 in less comfort, with the Porsche and the Aston being more performance oriented. My Dad had a 1986 928S that he had until trading it for a 87 911 Turbo. Its been some time since I've driven a 928 but my memories were, it was very stable at high speeds, very comfortable almost cacooning the passengers for high speed travel, and able to cruise effortlessly at high speeds. It was not by any means a lightweight sports car but that was not its intent. It was intended to show German engineering at its finest (back in the day), and it could be used as everyday transportation more comfortably than a 911 or a Ferrari.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:14 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by shmark View Post
Ah Ryan, always the one to blow sunshine and rainbows.

Those stats are interesting. That weight for the 308 sure looks high as a bunch of guys have weighed theirs right around 3000lbs, fully loaded without a driver. I'd love to see a similar comparison of the euro versions. I think they are equally close, just with a higher performance envelope compared to the US cars. I do know that from a dead stop I was able to stay with an S4, both of us getting on it pretty hard.
the 308 has something like 220 HP, perhaps you drove one with a carb, they are closer to 300 from what i remember

and yes it felt like a slow pig. I was 19 or 20 when i drove it and it was this mythical car to me prior. But the lasting memory I have of it now is that it was all show and some go. I cant say I would ever buy a 308.

AGAIN, the 928 is no lightweight, but I think the 928 GT was a far more interesting car from the drivers seat.

And why the f*** do you take such offense to a contrary opinion? Grow up



As for another comment as to the sight lines out of the car, yes this is a very good point. I remember that its very uncomfortable to drive when your not familiar with the car. Its very difficult to see out of and as for practicality, its gotta be close to the bottom for any car for reasons like the one above. I think you would become comfortable with the car after you've parked it a few dozen times and found your way through a few tight traffic jams. But hoping into it for the first time its intimidating because you simply cannot confidently judge where the ends of the car are, you cannot see the front bumper let alone anything out the rear.

Also, from my experience a 5 speed GT and an automatic S4 are completely different cars in character. Yes I believe the gearbox makes this much of a difference. So perhaps one should compare a 5 speed 928 to the 5 speed 308. Again in my experience, the 928 GT was an awesome performer, while the S4.... is more like a lux cruiser than anything.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:27 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella View Post
the 308 has something like 220 HP, perhaps you drove one with a carb, they are closer to 300 from what i remember

and yes it felt like a slow pig. I was 19 or 20 when i drove it and it was this mythical car to me prior. But the lasting memory I have of it now is that it was all show and some go. I cant say I would ever buy a 308.

AGAIN, the 928 is no lightweight, but I think the 928 GT was a far more interesting car from the drivers seat.
The euro QV and eary carb cars were about 250hp. Early fuel injected cars from 1980-82 only made 205hp and were very slow.

None of the Ferraris and Porsches from the 80s are quick by todays standards.

But you have to remember lots of cars were struggling to be in the 200hp range. The US spec 911s from 1978-1983 only made about 176hp. BWM 633CSi of the same time made about 182hp and the 1982 380SEC made only 150hp. In addition, the Ferrari 512BB Lamborghini Countach were gray market imports to the USA. We only got official US spec V12 Ferraris and Lamborghinis in 1985 when they brought out the Testarossa with 380hp and the Countach 5000 QV with approx 455.

In the end, there are cars that are quicker and easier to drive than what was available in the 1980s, but many have a cookie cutter feel to them and they are almost generic. You can get a Nissan GTR thats quicker than plenty of high end cars on the market. But in the end, eventually it will just be another old car someday and there will be something quicker.

For me there is a fun to drive factor with older Ferraris, Porsches etc, that are not merely measured by 0-60 or 1/4 mile. But to each his own.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:37 PM
  #40  
RyanPerrella
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Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
The euro QV and eary carb cars were about 250hp. Early fuel injected cars from 1980-82 only made 205hp and were very slow.

None of the Ferraris and Porsches from the 80s are quick by todays standards.

But you have to remember lots of cars were struggling to be in the 200hp range. The US spec 911s from 1978-1983 only made about 176hp. BWM 633CSi of the same time made about 182hp and the 1982 380SEC made only 150hp. In addition, the Ferrari 512BB Lamborghini Countach were gray market imports to the USA. We only got official US spec V12 Ferraris and Lamborghinis in 1985 when they brought out the Testarossa with 380hp and the Countach 5000 QV with approx 455.

In the end, there are cars that are quicker and easier to drive than what was available in the 1980s, but many have a cookie cutter feel to them and they are almost generic. You can get a Nissan GTR thats quicker than plenty of high end cars on the market. But in the end, eventually it will just be another old car someday and there will be something quicker.

For me there is a fun to drive factor with older Ferraris, Porsches etc, that are not merely measured by 0-60 or 1/4 mile. But to each his own.
Whats a Euro QV with headers and cams run HP wise? I remember when I was a kid like 8 years old that a friends Euro carb 308 was otherworldly fast by comparison to the injected car. And I recall 300, but that was a long time ago.

Also as for the comparison to the 80's cars you mentioned, I dont consider any of those cars fast. v6 hondas and Toyotas will leave them all at a stoplight now. But a 928 GT i still consider a fast car today. Of course now a BMW 335 will likely take a stock GT off the line but its still contemporary performance even though they are 20 years old. The 30 year old 308 I dont find to be in the same league. They are still very cool cars, but for reasons not relating to performance.... at least not for me.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella View Post
Whats a Euro QV with headers and cams run HP wise? I remember when I was a kid like 8 years old that a friends Euro carb 308 was otherworldly fast by comparison to the injected car. And I recall 300, but that was a long time ago.

Also as for the comparison to the 80's cars you mentioned, I dont consider any of those cars fast. v6 hondas and Toyotas will leave them all at a stoplight now. But a 928 GT i still consider a fast car today. Of course now a BMW 335 will likely take a stock GT off the line but its still contemporary performance even though they are 20 years old. The 30 year old 308 I dont find to be in the same league. They are still very cool cars, but for reasons not relating to performance.... at least not for me.
I've not seen a relatively stock 308 with anything close to 300hp. It would have to be very heavily modded, and even then 300 seems rather generous whether carbed or injected. I think 300 just sounds better to a lot of people and who is going to ask the guy for a dyno plot.

I wasn't saying any of the 80's cars I mentioned were fast, I mentioend them just as a comparison to what the available as an alternative to a 928 or 308 back in the day. I like the looks of the 928 and the way it feels, but whether its fast compared to todays standards is arguable unless maybe its a GTS. Then again I've never thought it fair to hold a 20 year old car up to todays performance standards.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:26 PM
  #42  
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Good thread! In my opinion the 308 body is one of the best looking road cars of all time. Of course, the real potential was only realized in the 288 GTO. (see sublime body in picture below)

The great thing about the 308, and most "vintage" Fcars for that matter, is how they inspire. But they are occasion cars. The 928 is as forgiving as the 308 is not. The 928 so capable in multiple uses, and the 308 is a compromise in all but spirited driving settings.

But a more insulated (isolated) feel from power steering,power brakes, driver compartment insulation, etc., is both the joy and the curse of 928's. The fact that the 928 was fast but didn't "feel" fast (as so many have commented here and I have been told by passengers as well) is precisely why the "vintage" Ferraris are still so bloody fun. To make the point with an extreme example, an Enzo owner was telling me about his experience. He said the Enzo is so capable and confidence inspiring that he has to go ridiculous speeds on the road to "feel" any exhilaration. And since that is just so foolish and dangerous, he finds his 308 to be, in many ways related to seat of the pants feel, more fun to drive on the road.

Based on experience with my BBi and 928, I think a 308 is a great addition to a garage already housing a 928.

As an aside, I corner balanced my BBi and it weighed 3,468lbs. (IIRC, well less than 3,500) with 3/4 tank of fuel (120 liter capacity), so I don't believe that a 308 is a 3,400lb car. More like 3,200 or so. Although my BBi is a grey market conversion that is mostly Euro spec save for the DOT reinforcing bars in the doors. It could be the DOT required equipment weighed several hundred more pounds than the Euro spec 308's.

Now, if I just had that extra half mil for that GTO... oh baby!
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:22 PM
  #43  
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If the 928 is too comfortable going fast, you are not going fast enough

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:34 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dprantl View Post
If the 928 is too comfortable going fast, you are not going fast enough

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
There in lies the problem. Fast enough in a 928 is 100+ on a straight road. Harder turns need to be double the posted limit to make them interesting. Up until now I have always been awestruck by the super high performance cars but the reality is that I would never be able to enjoy them the way they are meant to be enjoyed unless I took them to the track. Judging by many of the replies here I'm gathering that others also feel this way.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:45 PM
  #45  
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Hmm.. let me see.. the opinion of a guy who owns both the higher hp 308 "Euro" Quattrovalve model, and a 928, versus the opinion of some guy who drove the anaemic US version once and can't even remember how old he was?



Originally Posted by RyanPerrella View Post
the 308 has something like 220 HP, perhaps you drove one with a carb, they are closer to 300 from what i remember

and yes it felt like a slow pig. I was 19 or 20 when i drove it and it was this mythical car to me prior. But the lasting memory I have of it now is that it was all show and some go. I cant say I would ever buy a 308.

AGAIN, the 928 is no lightweight, but I think the 928 GT was a far more interesting car from the drivers seat.

And why the f*** do you take such offense to a contrary opinion? Grow up
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