FLUSH Center Console Development
07-20-2010, 09:42 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
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Hi JP. As close as you are I can envision you making a trip over the mountain with you 5 speed so that it might become a test case for that version of this conversion. Start looking for a Pioneer AVIC double DIN navigation unit of late/recent manufacture that you might like to put in your 928. I have been buying some of them on eBay and have one that is the AVIC-X910BT, one AVIC-X920BT, and one AVIC-Z3. If you get something like one of these that will be the simplist since that is what I am going to design around.
Jerry
Jerry
07-20-2010, 09:56 PM
#32
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Hi Paul. That is an interesting thought. It could be that the boot that I will be making for the 5 speed is actually the same boot I will be making for the auto shifter. I haven't compared the measurements, but the perimeter of the two could be the same or very close to the same. It doesn't really matter, however, since there is no big issue to having two different patterns for the two. Either one has to be cut out of leather and sewn up the back, so it really doesn't matter if they are interchangeable or not.
Good thought though.
Jerry Feather
Good thought though.
Jerry Feather
07-20-2010, 11:19 PM
#34
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I think that the only use anyone is going to have for thier original shifter boot, whether from and automatic of a 5 speed, is to cut it apart and use the leather to make a new shifter boot that will match the pattern for the one or the other that will be required for either of these new lower around-the-shifter trim pieces.
Too, that may be of some value too since I expect to be fairly limited in making shifter boots out of all of the different color leathers that might be desired to match anything but basic black, dark blue, or dark red. That could change if I decide to get serious about finding any of the other Porsche colors that might be wanted.
Jerry
Too, that may be of some value too since I expect to be fairly limited in making shifter boots out of all of the different color leathers that might be desired to match anything but basic black, dark blue, or dark red. That could change if I decide to get serious about finding any of the other Porsche colors that might be wanted.
Jerry
07-21-2010, 11:35 AM
#35
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Somebody on here sent me an email yesterday asking if the Pioneer Avic-Z1 unit would work in this conversion. My response was that I didn't know yet. My main concern, now actually about any of them, is that Kieth found that he had to move something on the air box under the dash to get his Avic-D2 (I think) unit to fit. However another member later posted (and I can't find it now) that he used the Pioneer Avic-X910BT unit in a conversion similar to Kieth's and didn't have to move anything on the air box.
As near as I can tell, however, all of these units seem to have the same overall dimensions. In fact, I suspect that even similar units from other manufacturers are likely to be the same size; and the front opening is also likely to be the same. The one difference I found with a Kenwood unit I saw at Best Buy when I was trying to find out what "double DIN" meant, had the same size front panel, but that it protruded about an eighth of an inch farther out. That kind of difference will have to be adjusted for with a spacer in the back of the upper insert, I think.
It might be that I will need to develop something to help move something on the air box, but I hope not.
Jerry Feather
As near as I can tell, however, all of these units seem to have the same overall dimensions. In fact, I suspect that even similar units from other manufacturers are likely to be the same size; and the front opening is also likely to be the same. The one difference I found with a Kenwood unit I saw at Best Buy when I was trying to find out what "double DIN" meant, had the same size front panel, but that it protruded about an eighth of an inch farther out. That kind of difference will have to be adjusted for with a spacer in the back of the upper insert, I think.
It might be that I will need to develop something to help move something on the air box, but I hope not.
Jerry Feather
07-21-2010, 07:58 PM
#36
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I took off of work a little early this afternoon and got a chance to nearly finish up both the the two new forms I am making. I removed each of the four intermediate bars and finished the top surfaces of all of them to match the contour of the form and then rounded the trailing edge corners of one of the forms. I also did a little filing and sanding on both of them, so they are almost finished. I'll round the corners of the other one a little later this evening and then all I have to do is de-burr all of the corners where the plastic will be forming.
Usually I try to round the corners enough so that I feel like the plastic will pull around the corners somewhat, but that tends to compromise the detail. With these forms I think I will try to leave the edges very crisp, perhaps rounding them a tiny bit with just emery cloth and not use a file on them. If that caused a problem in the forming I can always do it over and round them a bit more.
Here are three pictures of what I have so far. I hope you can envision what the plastic will look like stretched over these two forms.
Jerry Feather
Usually I try to round the corners enough so that I feel like the plastic will pull around the corners somewhat, but that tends to compromise the detail. With these forms I think I will try to leave the edges very crisp, perhaps rounding them a tiny bit with just emery cloth and not use a file on them. If that caused a problem in the forming I can always do it over and round them a bit more.
Here are three pictures of what I have so far. I hope you can envision what the plastic will look like stretched over these two forms.
Jerry Feather
07-21-2010, 10:54 PM
#37
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I meassured the two shifter openings and find that the opening for the 5 speed is about 2 inches bigger around than the opening for the auto shifter. I guess that means there will for sure be two different patterns for the shifter boots.
Jerry
Jerry
07-22-2010, 10:37 AM
#38
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I made a drawing of the upper insert, of sorts. Here are a couple of pictures of it. Actually it is a drawing that gives me the outer pattern of the form for the upper insert, so it is a little smaller than the insert will actually be by the thickness of the formed plastic (a little more than a sixteenth, I think) and the thickness of the leather covering it. However, the openings in the drawing are full size, not including an allowance for the leather covering.
As I mentioned before I am going to cut the upper air vent out of the console and put it in this insert. Then I am going to relocate the vent grill a little lower that it is originally by maybe as much as a quarter of an inch. In doing so I am also going to trim the left and right edges of the vent grill off so the overlapping edge is the same all around. That will eliminate the four little locating pins, some of which are probably broken off already.
This part of this insert will be angled very slightly foreward to match the upper part of the console.
Below the vent will be the Double DIN Nav/etc. unit. I think it is going to be mounted in the console and not in the upper insert. That will require some kind of cage for it to be located in which I think I'll fabricate as part of this system. That will help to put some stiffness back into the console since this project is essentially going to remove most or all of the cross bracing plastic presently in the console.
At the bottom of the upper insert will be the present HVAC controls nested together. That part of the insert will have a slight curvature upward to match the console so these two items will be mounted at a slight angle. Again, they will be mounted in the insert and not the console.
This upper insert will of course become the mount for some of the console items and will also be the trim for all of it.
As I mentioned before I am going to cut the upper air vent out of the console and put it in this insert. Then I am going to relocate the vent grill a little lower that it is originally by maybe as much as a quarter of an inch. In doing so I am also going to trim the left and right edges of the vent grill off so the overlapping edge is the same all around. That will eliminate the four little locating pins, some of which are probably broken off already.
This part of this insert will be angled very slightly foreward to match the upper part of the console.
Below the vent will be the Double DIN Nav/etc. unit. I think it is going to be mounted in the console and not in the upper insert. That will require some kind of cage for it to be located in which I think I'll fabricate as part of this system. That will help to put some stiffness back into the console since this project is essentially going to remove most or all of the cross bracing plastic presently in the console.
At the bottom of the upper insert will be the present HVAC controls nested together. That part of the insert will have a slight curvature upward to match the console so these two items will be mounted at a slight angle. Again, they will be mounted in the insert and not the console.
This upper insert will of course become the mount for some of the console items and will also be the trim for all of it.
07-22-2010, 04:45 PM
#39
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This is so cool! I can't wait to see it installed in a 928 console!
One challenge will be the way the console is beveled right before the window switches, and the other challenge will be the tolerance of these consoles.
I have experienced about 2mm of tolerance in the original console inserts (around the shifter), for some reason. Maybe you can make the end of the insert such that it can be sanded a bit to fit into the shorter consoles?
One challenge will be the way the console is beveled right before the window switches, and the other challenge will be the tolerance of these consoles.
I have experienced about 2mm of tolerance in the original console inserts (around the shifter), for some reason. Maybe you can make the end of the insert such that it can be sanded a bit to fit into the shorter consoles?
07-22-2010, 06:25 PM
#40
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Hi Nicole. This is a very astute observation on your part. I am beginning to think that you are a real gear head! Actually, I reached that conclusion some time ago about you. It is really nice to have someone else observing these kind of details.
What you might have observed with what I am calling the "prototype" trim piece that I finished the HOW TO thread with that it had the trailing edge ground and sanded down to a nearly knife edge. That was for the purpose of having it nest right into this beveled recess you are talking about. The problem is that even with it ground so thin it was going to be covered top and bottom with a layer of leather and just the leather on the bottom was going to tend to hold it up a bit above flush if it comes all the way back to the upper edge of the bevel, where I would like it.
When I started fabricating the two new forms for the Flush console in ernest I tried pretty hard to keep the dimensions the same except for allowing a little more beef to take up for the thinner plastic I am planning to use. The problem is that I was not as careful in laying out the length of the form correctly, and that is probably because I shortened them about a half inch so the crossbar for the trailing edge would cantilever off the back. Anyway, I ended up with the forms being about an eighth of an inch shorter that the original form.
Rather than start over, I decided to rationalize the loss of an eighth of an inch and decided that I will be better off with it short since I can finish it fatter and not so knife edge and still cover it with leather and have it fit into the bevel area at the rear, but not quite so tightly. That means that there will likely be a little distance from the trailing edge of the trim piece to the upper edge of the bevel, but I don't think it is going to be noticable as a gap so much as it might since it is filled with bevel and not space. In other words, I don't think it will look like a gap. In fact I think it will look very nicely finished. Too, there will be more flexibility in grinding or sanding this trailing edge to get just the right result without trying to bring it back all the way. Pretty nice rationalization, don't you think?
Jerry
What you might have observed with what I am calling the "prototype" trim piece that I finished the HOW TO thread with that it had the trailing edge ground and sanded down to a nearly knife edge. That was for the purpose of having it nest right into this beveled recess you are talking about. The problem is that even with it ground so thin it was going to be covered top and bottom with a layer of leather and just the leather on the bottom was going to tend to hold it up a bit above flush if it comes all the way back to the upper edge of the bevel, where I would like it.
When I started fabricating the two new forms for the Flush console in ernest I tried pretty hard to keep the dimensions the same except for allowing a little more beef to take up for the thinner plastic I am planning to use. The problem is that I was not as careful in laying out the length of the form correctly, and that is probably because I shortened them about a half inch so the crossbar for the trailing edge would cantilever off the back. Anyway, I ended up with the forms being about an eighth of an inch shorter that the original form.
Rather than start over, I decided to rationalize the loss of an eighth of an inch and decided that I will be better off with it short since I can finish it fatter and not so knife edge and still cover it with leather and have it fit into the bevel area at the rear, but not quite so tightly. That means that there will likely be a little distance from the trailing edge of the trim piece to the upper edge of the bevel, but I don't think it is going to be noticable as a gap so much as it might since it is filled with bevel and not space. In other words, I don't think it will look like a gap. In fact I think it will look very nicely finished. Too, there will be more flexibility in grinding or sanding this trailing edge to get just the right result without trying to bring it back all the way. Pretty nice rationalization, don't you think?
Jerry
07-22-2010, 06:33 PM
#41
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More to the point of your inquiry, Nicole, With the shorter trim piece I am going to end up with the adjustment for the different length, if there really is some in the console and not just the original trim piece, as you suggest, will be by grinding the trailing edge a little thinner and not shorter and moving it back as needed and still stay flush.
I have six consoles total, but I haven't done any measuring to see how close they are in any dimension.
Jerry
I have six consoles total, but I haven't done any measuring to see how close they are in any dimension.
Jerry
07-22-2010, 09:31 PM
#44
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07-24-2010, 06:04 PM
#45
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I'll bet you were wondering where Jerry went.
I didn't get much done on the project the last couple of days, but today I got the forming machine back together with one of the new forms, the one for the auto shifter version, and have the the upper forming components almost complete. I had to make a convex curved form to push the plastic down into the curvature on the upper part of the form and then a male form to push the plastic down into the only recess that this whole conversion is going to have, the shallow recess around the shifter.
Here are some pictures of progress.
The first picture shows the last forming member that still has to be drilled to match the bar above (in the next picture) where it mounts.
The second shows the bar where the recess form bolts. Also, at the right corner of the arrowhead is the convex member that I made this morning to form the curved surface as mentioned above.
The last picture shows the machine all folded up in all of its compexity.
More tomorrow, I think.
Jerry Feather
I didn't get much done on the project the last couple of days, but today I got the forming machine back together with one of the new forms, the one for the auto shifter version, and have the the upper forming components almost complete. I had to make a convex curved form to push the plastic down into the curvature on the upper part of the form and then a male form to push the plastic down into the only recess that this whole conversion is going to have, the shallow recess around the shifter.
Here are some pictures of progress.
The first picture shows the last forming member that still has to be drilled to match the bar above (in the next picture) where it mounts.
The second shows the bar where the recess form bolts. Also, at the right corner of the arrowhead is the convex member that I made this morning to form the curved surface as mentioned above.
The last picture shows the machine all folded up in all of its compexity.
More tomorrow, I think.
Jerry Feather