That's what you get for parking a 928 for 5 years
10-11-2010 | 04:35 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,337
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From: Austin, TX
Keep in mind too it could be (at least in part) a messed up ignition switch itself. Some of the strangest things start to happen to these cars when that bugger goes out! Stuff that is unexplainable, often intermittent and frequently unrelated to other problems that mimic it...
^^^^^^
Damn it! You JUST BEAT ME!!! We must have been typing the same thought at the same time! LOL!
^^^^^^
Damn it! You JUST BEAT ME!!! We must have been typing the same thought at the same time! LOL!
10-11-2010 | 05:44 PM
#33
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Johnson City, TN
Did you pull the air cleaner and clean the grounds under the fuel lines at each side of the valley?
Did you pull the fuse panel completely out and clean it thoroughly? Look for any wire melts on the back.
Also, I would probably, based on experience, replace the battery ground wire. It decays beneath the plastic insulation if it gets any moisture from body or battery.
Just a few places to start.
New gas, new filter.
Did you pull the fuse panel completely out and clean it thoroughly? Look for any wire melts on the back.
Also, I would probably, based on experience, replace the battery ground wire. It decays beneath the plastic insulation if it gets any moisture from body or battery.
Just a few places to start.
New gas, new filter.
10-16-2010 | 05:35 PM
#34
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: durham, nc
I'm in porsche electrical h*ll
Ok...got another known good ecu and hoped for the best.
The new fuel pump is still not being triggered...relay isn't relaying but I can get the pump going if I manually trigger the relay so there's nothing wrong with the fuel pump.
Started pulling fuses and the nightmare began.
Found a few 25 amp fuses in spots where 7.5 or 15 were called for (in light circuits).
Then when I got to the 30 amp fan blower fuse, it was melted. Tried tugging on it and...this happened
Then I found this 30 amp fuse inserted that was linked behind. Have to double check which locations it was jumpered to but fuse was good and it never posed a problem when the car did run (perhaps an alarm bypass?)
There were some connectors just dangling and not plugged in anywhere:
These two brown wires that were unplugged with the male wire taped to prevent reconnection. These were right at the lh plug.
This plug was just lying on the floor behind the fuse box:
This one has a yellow jumper wire but looks factory:
I also started looking around the car for broken/screwed up wires and found this in the trunk just above the battery box:
The wires are frayed and were touching...I did untwist the wires for the pic. These probably explain the interior lighting gremlins but like all the above problems, I don't think have anything to do with the fuel pump relay not being triggered.
Felt like crying (or at least pouring gas on the car and tossing a match).
Going to search for my noid light to see if the injectors are getting any voltage when cranking (I didn't hear any clicking when cranking and I suspect that they aren't getting signal either).
I am getting spark.
I do have a good ignition switch that I need to get out of my 944 parts car and will try again to see if it is the ignition switch.
I welcome any suggestions.
The new fuel pump is still not being triggered...relay isn't relaying but I can get the pump going if I manually trigger the relay so there's nothing wrong with the fuel pump.
Started pulling fuses and the nightmare began.
Found a few 25 amp fuses in spots where 7.5 or 15 were called for (in light circuits).
Then when I got to the 30 amp fan blower fuse, it was melted. Tried tugging on it and...this happened
Then I found this 30 amp fuse inserted that was linked behind. Have to double check which locations it was jumpered to but fuse was good and it never posed a problem when the car did run (perhaps an alarm bypass?)
There were some connectors just dangling and not plugged in anywhere:
These two brown wires that were unplugged with the male wire taped to prevent reconnection. These were right at the lh plug.
This plug was just lying on the floor behind the fuse box:
This one has a yellow jumper wire but looks factory:
I also started looking around the car for broken/screwed up wires and found this in the trunk just above the battery box:
The wires are frayed and were touching...I did untwist the wires for the pic. These probably explain the interior lighting gremlins but like all the above problems, I don't think have anything to do with the fuel pump relay not being triggered.
Felt like crying (or at least pouring gas on the car and tossing a match).
Going to search for my noid light to see if the injectors are getting any voltage when cranking (I didn't hear any clicking when cranking and I suspect that they aren't getting signal either).
I am getting spark.
I do have a good ignition switch that I need to get out of my 944 parts car and will try again to see if it is the ignition switch.
I welcome any suggestions.
Last edited by steven storch; 10-16-2010 at 11:52 PM.
10-16-2010 | 05:55 PM
#35
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,155
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From: Johnson City, TN
Well.
Its actually good news.
You know the electrical is behind this.
You should pull that entire fuse panel out right now, clean it up, and post some real good pictures.
There are a lot of possible problems with wire melts on the back of the panel, in my opinion. Especially with wrong fusing. And yes, it can cause all the havoc you are experiencing, including intermittency. You will need to dig through your grounds, too, especially deep on back of engine.
I would disconnect that battery and be sure NOT to try anything until you get the panel out and examine more wires and put it all back in reasonable shape. Take your time, we have seen many far worse.
The factory jumper plug is for the alarm system (bypassing it).
There is the possibility (strong one, actually) that you can source a new panel easily (85 or 86 will work) if it comes to that.
The residue on the panel is probably mouse pee and poop, BTW. Probably smells pretty good.
Its actually good news.
You know the electrical is behind this.
You should pull that entire fuse panel out right now, clean it up, and post some real good pictures.
There are a lot of possible problems with wire melts on the back of the panel, in my opinion. Especially with wrong fusing. And yes, it can cause all the havoc you are experiencing, including intermittency. You will need to dig through your grounds, too, especially deep on back of engine.
I would disconnect that battery and be sure NOT to try anything until you get the panel out and examine more wires and put it all back in reasonable shape. Take your time, we have seen many far worse.
The factory jumper plug is for the alarm system (bypassing it).
There is the possibility (strong one, actually) that you can source a new panel easily (85 or 86 will work) if it comes to that.
The residue on the panel is probably mouse pee and poop, BTW. Probably smells pretty good.
10-16-2010 | 08:05 PM
#38
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,155
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From: Johnson City, TN
Careful, your plugs are a little different.
The ones in the link just fit snug.
Yours have a common sliding lock (center,under the tabs) and each plug also has a little locking tab to its upper right..
The ones in the link just fit snug.
Yours have a common sliding lock (center,under the tabs) and each plug also has a little locking tab to its upper right..
10-19-2010 | 03:21 PM
#39
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 78
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From: durham, nc
update
Cleaned all grounds...none were too bad or bad enough to obviously explain my problem.
Removed the fuse panel. There were a few partially melted fuses and some corrosion on a few of the circuits, mainly the blower circuit. Cleaned everything up, replaced all fuses (after cleaning them too, discarding any questionable looking ones).
Found a few more chewed wires behind the fuse panel in one of the small harnesses that runs up under the dash. None chewed all the way through and no signs of shorting, but I'll solder in some patches there and in the trunk...don' think these were the issue.
In reading through some old threads on those with similar starting issues, I recall that my tach did not move when cranking. So I checked the sensor connection under the hood and it crumbled in my hand...all of it. The electrical prongs, however were in good shape so I plugged them in but will have to be replacing that sensor shortly. (this was the 3 wire connector toward the front center of the engine).
More significantly, when I was replacing the relays, one of them made rattling sound. I opened it up and some burned wire fell out. Upon closer inspection, looks like at least one of the diodes disintegrated. The relay is the kick-down relay. From my understanding, this relay could keep the car from starting.
Sound right?
So now I'm in need of a good used kick down relay (saw that new ones are $238!). The part # is 928.618.109.01 if anyone could help out.
Oh...as I was buttoning things up, the sob mouse ran across my hands as I was taking the battery out of the trunk for recharging. I'll be buying some mouse traps at walmart today.
Removed the fuse panel. There were a few partially melted fuses and some corrosion on a few of the circuits, mainly the blower circuit. Cleaned everything up, replaced all fuses (after cleaning them too, discarding any questionable looking ones).
Found a few more chewed wires behind the fuse panel in one of the small harnesses that runs up under the dash. None chewed all the way through and no signs of shorting, but I'll solder in some patches there and in the trunk...don' think these were the issue.
In reading through some old threads on those with similar starting issues, I recall that my tach did not move when cranking. So I checked the sensor connection under the hood and it crumbled in my hand...all of it. The electrical prongs, however were in good shape so I plugged them in but will have to be replacing that sensor shortly. (this was the 3 wire connector toward the front center of the engine).
More significantly, when I was replacing the relays, one of them made rattling sound. I opened it up and some burned wire fell out. Upon closer inspection, looks like at least one of the diodes disintegrated. The relay is the kick-down relay. From my understanding, this relay could keep the car from starting.
Sound right?
So now I'm in need of a good used kick down relay (saw that new ones are $238!). The part # is 928.618.109.01 if anyone could help out.
Oh...as I was buttoning things up, the sob mouse ran across my hands as I was taking the battery out of the trunk for recharging. I'll be buying some mouse traps at walmart today.
Last edited by steven storch; 10-19-2010 at 05:37 PM.
10-19-2010 | 04:17 PM
#40
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: durham, nc
Did a bit more reading and found that 928.618.109.01 is for 86 and up. Mine is an 85 and ran fine before I parked it but 928.618.109.00 is listed for models thru 86.
Wonder if I should replace with the same or go with the listed 00 relay. If they were $20 I would try both but they seem to cost more than some used cars. Or can this one be repaired? Not sure what was between the melted wires.
Wonder if I should replace with the same or go with the listed 00 relay. If they were $20 I would try both but they seem to cost more than some used cars. Or can this one be repaired? Not sure what was between the melted wires.
Last edited by steven storch; 10-19-2010 at 05:33 PM.
10-22-2010 | 05:47 PM
#42
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: New York
It would be a lot faster to call Dave Roberts (828-766-9280), Roger Tyson (817 430-2688) or Mark Anderson (714-632-9288) re the relays. They are all straight shooters as far as answering tech questions. And if they don't have the relay, they can get it. Some are available locally, but probably not a kick-down.
10-22-2010 | 06:45 PM
#43
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From: Shawnee, KS, USA
928 International has:
