Stalling/no start '84 Euro 5-speed
04-25-2010, 07:59 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
John, stick with it, its got to be something simple like a ground or a melted wire or combination of similar things. I'm lucky I made it home from Frenzy that night. Went a few frustrating months of LH no-start that ended up being a combo of the same things being suggested to you. Maybe its in the brain ultimately, but you need to be confident that the wiring is solid no matter what. I be grounds or dirty connection somewhere. Had the same all or nothing symptoms.
04-26-2010, 03:25 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
MrMerlin --
In another post you said that during an Intake R&R on an 87+ we should... "replace both knock sensors. The crank position sensor,. the throttle position sensor,....... the flappy vacuum pot,..... the hall sensor. Plus all of the rubber hoses that connect to the underside of the intake, New flappy shaft bearings with the rubber seal towards the outside of the intake housing, a new oil fill housing O ring and new H2O crossover O rings, and their assorted seals."
For my pre 87 how much of this does and/or doesn't apply? I probably wont be able to buy or even do most of this but, since I am going to attempt to put a new CPS in, maybe I can do some of this other stuff while Im there also? :yikes:
I know Fraggle has done much of this on his 87+, going to see If I can reach out to him also, crossing my fingerrs!
In another post you said that during an Intake R&R on an 87+ we should... "replace both knock sensors. The crank position sensor,. the throttle position sensor,....... the flappy vacuum pot,..... the hall sensor. Plus all of the rubber hoses that connect to the underside of the intake, New flappy shaft bearings with the rubber seal towards the outside of the intake housing, a new oil fill housing O ring and new H2O crossover O rings, and their assorted seals."
For my pre 87 how much of this does and/or doesn't apply? I probably wont be able to buy or even do most of this but, since I am going to attempt to put a new CPS in, maybe I can do some of this other stuff while Im there also? :yikes:
I know Fraggle has done much of this on his 87+, going to see If I can reach out to him also, crossing my fingerrs!
04-26-2010, 03:55 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
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I have basically cleaned every ground I could, replaced the ground strap with a generic new one, replaced the ignition switch, removed and cleaned the fuse panel as well as I could and even cleaned the injector connectors (thought that amounted to removing and spraying with contact cleaner). I cleaned as many connections in the engine bay as I could find.
I don't know if I am getting spark, however, or if I have fuel pressure at the rails. I know the pump runs when jumpered, and will almost start catch on ether, but never starts fully.
I don't know if I am getting spark, however, or if I have fuel pressure at the rails. I know the pump runs when jumpered, and will almost start catch on ether, but never starts fully.
Have you looked at any plugs after trying to start it to see whether they're wet?
Have you had any misfires/backfires while trying to start?
04-26-2010, 04:41 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
When the Stepson was having these same issues, it was determined by someone much smarter than me that the problem was the fuel pump relay ground. That is, the fuel pump relay would not function correctly because the ground wasn't there. Well guess what? The fuel pump relay gets it's ground from within the LH computer. I jumpered the fuel pump relay and the car would start and run all day long.
But.... I did send the LH off to JDS and had it rebuilt so I could use a relay instead of the infamous long-wired light switched fuel pump relay bypass tool.
But.... I did send the LH off to JDS and had it rebuilt so I could use a relay instead of the infamous long-wired light switched fuel pump relay bypass tool.
04-26-2010, 10:34 PM
#22
Team Owner
Beerfish for your car replace the injector seals, the crank position sensor the throttle position sensor ( if it checks bad), this part is easier to replace on tyour car.
Also the timing belt for the distributors.
And dont forget the thermostat and O ring and rear thermo seal and heater control valve and short hose and the fuel lines, and any other rubber part thats not in good condition to include the rubber seals for the spider,
Also the timing belt for the distributors.
And dont forget the thermostat and O ring and rear thermo seal and heater control valve and short hose and the fuel lines, and any other rubber part thats not in good condition to include the rubber seals for the spider,
05-15-2010, 05:54 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
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It would be good to isolate these. Use a timing light, or a spare plug in one of the plug caps, to verify that you have spark. It would also be good to check multiple wires, or to crank it in the dark and look for arcing, in case your ignition system is shorting out somewhere.
Have you looked at any plugs after trying to start it to see whether they're wet?
Have you had any misfires/backfires while trying to start?
Have you looked at any plugs after trying to start it to see whether they're wet?
Have you had any misfires/backfires while trying to start?
05-16-2010, 10:13 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
So far. The only thing I have noticed as a possible cause is the ground strap. Even when the wing nut is locked down tight, it is possible, although hard to imagine, that the strap could lose connection.
So, I purchased a copper washer and placed it UNDER the strap, not above it. Now, the wing nut tightens down to the strap. I have not had a recurrence. I am very uncomfortable claiming this is the fix for my situation but, its the only "fix" I have made, other than cleaning everything else.
So, I purchased a copper washer and placed it UNDER the strap, not above it. Now, the wing nut tightens down to the strap. I have not had a recurrence. I am very uncomfortable claiming this is the fix for my situation but, its the only "fix" I have made, other than cleaning everything else.
05-16-2010, 11:08 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
John,
Found an intermittent no start with Perl last week. The cause was a frayed crank position sensor (CPS) wire lead.
There is no easy way to test the CPS signal. I suggest ordering one and replacing it.
Other stuff like the idle/WOT switch (TPS) can be checked with a multi-meter (MM).
Found an intermittent no start with Perl last week. The cause was a frayed crank position sensor (CPS) wire lead.
There is no easy way to test the CPS signal. I suggest ordering one and replacing it.
Other stuff like the idle/WOT switch (TPS) can be checked with a multi-meter (MM).
05-16-2010, 11:29 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
I scuffed up the ground point on is car pretty well with 400 paper that night, and substituted a known-good battery ground. Was hoping for a more definitive fix, as you are as well.
Jim, where are the ground terminals on the 84 Euro? Same as 16 V USA on cam cover, or more like 85/6/7 back by the bell housing?
Jim, where are the ground terminals on the 84 Euro? Same as 16 V USA on cam cover, or more like 85/6/7 back by the bell housing?
05-16-2010, 12:06 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
John,
Just consulted wiring diagrams for ROW 84.
I'd be certain the wires that enter ring terminal(s) and attach to the passenger cam cover are clean entering the ring terminal and clean mounted to the cam cover. They represent all the critical electronic component grounds (LH, Ignition module, MAF, etc). Strip and use a new ring terminal if needed. I might even add an auxilliary ground wire to link cam cover with fender.
Then, I'd buy a heavy battery cable and replace the cable linking block to frame under the passenger side.
I was measuring full battery voltage at your fusepanel and on the hot post that night, even with no start.
Don't despair, you've got what appears to be a classic 928 ground problem , but you will have to dig to get them.
And I'd next replace the CPS and be certain of the integrity of wires entering the male and female connectors, per Jadz928's experience.
Just consulted wiring diagrams for ROW 84.
I'd be certain the wires that enter ring terminal(s) and attach to the passenger cam cover are clean entering the ring terminal and clean mounted to the cam cover. They represent all the critical electronic component grounds (LH, Ignition module, MAF, etc). Strip and use a new ring terminal if needed. I might even add an auxilliary ground wire to link cam cover with fender.
Then, I'd buy a heavy battery cable and replace the cable linking block to frame under the passenger side.
I was measuring full battery voltage at your fusepanel and on the hot post that night, even with no start.
Don't despair, you've got what appears to be a classic 928 ground problem , but you will have to dig to get them.
And I'd next replace the CPS and be certain of the integrity of wires entering the male and female connectors, per Jadz928's experience.
05-16-2010, 12:25 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Wow Jim! That terminal was rough! Your lucky yours was obvious, ha.
Thanks again for the comments guys. I am in no way in despair though... thats just the problem. Everything, I mean everything looooooooks fantastic! And the car runs awesome, seriously awesome! So, I have no way to verify if anything I have done "fixed" it. Because it hasn't failed on me again yet.
The grounds (and wires) on the cam covers were cleaned up, but looked spotless before I even cleaned them. It was much easier once Jason pulled out the smog pump and plumbing and replaced that belt with the 21 incher I got at the mower shop (no rear A/C on my euro).
I admit, I didnt replace the ground wire under the passenger side though. Anyone have a part # for that?
Thanks again for the comments guys. I am in no way in despair though... thats just the problem. Everything, I mean everything looooooooks fantastic! And the car runs awesome, seriously awesome! So, I have no way to verify if anything I have done "fixed" it. Because it hasn't failed on me again yet.
The grounds (and wires) on the cam covers were cleaned up, but looked spotless before I even cleaned them. It was much easier once Jason pulled out the smog pump and plumbing and replaced that belt with the 21 incher I got at the mower shop (no rear A/C on my euro).
I admit, I didnt replace the ground wire under the passenger side though. Anyone have a part # for that?
05-16-2010, 11:11 PM
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
John,
Just consulted wiring diagrams for ROW 84.
I'd be certain the wires that enter ring terminal(s) and attach to the passenger cam cover are clean entering the ring terminal and clean mounted to the cam cover. They represent all the critical electronic component grounds (LH, Ignition module, MAF, etc). Strip and use a new ring terminal if needed. I might even add an auxilliary ground wire to link cam cover with fender.
Then, I'd buy a heavy battery cable and replace the cable linking block to frame under the passenger side.
I was measuring full battery voltage at your fusepanel and on the hot post that night, even with no start.
Don't despair, you've got what appears to be a classic 928 ground problem , but you will have to dig to get them.
And I'd next replace the CPS and be certain of the integrity of wires entering the male and female connectors, per Jadz928's experience.
Just consulted wiring diagrams for ROW 84.
I'd be certain the wires that enter ring terminal(s) and attach to the passenger cam cover are clean entering the ring terminal and clean mounted to the cam cover. They represent all the critical electronic component grounds (LH, Ignition module, MAF, etc). Strip and use a new ring terminal if needed. I might even add an auxilliary ground wire to link cam cover with fender.
Then, I'd buy a heavy battery cable and replace the cable linking block to frame under the passenger side.
I was measuring full battery voltage at your fusepanel and on the hot post that night, even with no start.
Don't despair, you've got what appears to be a classic 928 ground problem , but you will have to dig to get them.
And I'd next replace the CPS and be certain of the integrity of wires entering the male and female connectors, per Jadz928's experience.
