bowerbird

Im really interested in the diversity of opinions on this car. Mrmerlin...why would you assume it is a Pandora car? I don;t know enough to make that judgment so easily, What am I missing?


The primary variable driving me to this vehicle was the fact that it has had the same owner since 86. He seemed knowledgeable about his car and had quite a handsome fleet of others (not 928s). Other than the A/c and paint issues it seemed rather nice. I bought a VW a couple years ago empty of freon. I had some r12 dumped in it and it was good to go. Such could be the case here but having nothing to go on so I have to assume the worst, which is why the price seems so out-of-phase right now.

Landseer

These things are all 20 to 30 years old.

You can spend 5 or 6 on a newer car and still be looking at significant maint and time.

I think the equation includes whether you enjoy studying manuals and working on them, or , would you hire somebody to work on it. Also, do you enjoy improving them or just driving them.

Kind of personal that way, I think.

Not so many people buy these and stay rightside-up, I think.

Me, I like working on them. Yesterday I stripped the intake off one for the second time in 3 months. Today, it went back together, started on the first turn, and got me to the store to by a lottery ticket. I'm happy. Others expect more.

shmark

Continuous owner history is definitely a big deal and if he has the maintenance records (as he should) then you'll know when the last service was. Even if it was a while ago, the fact it hasn't been passed around adds significant value. The interior condition also adds significant value. That the year is 1978 also adds a little value. However the inop a/c is a $2k hit period, no matter what's wrong with it. The repaint also detracts, although if it's good then not as much. That peeling on the bottom looks like they painted over the factory stone guard paint, which has a texture and will not hold paint well. Not rust, but not bad and easy to respray.

Look at it this way. A very nice '78 with everything working and original paint would bring $7k easy. Full maintenance history from day one would add at least $2k to that, so this one is somewhere in between, call it $8k. Subtract $2k for the a/c, another $500 for incidentals if you do your own work, and another $1000 for the repaint, and you're at $4500 which is a decent deal for a good looking running and driving '78. Personally I'd offer $3500 and see what he says.

Jerry Feather

What I have to say at this point, together with what I have had to say before, probably adds up to about 6 cents worth.

One thing that has not been addressed before, unless I missed it, is the potential for damage history. One of the reasons that a repaint causes a significant reduction in value is that it can be presumed to have been the result of body damage. Changing the color makes it even worse, but that has been addressed.

In other words, why was the whole car repainted? It is not likely that it was the result of a simple desire to have a different color. More likely it was because it had to be repainted anyway because of damage and then it was a "good" idea to change the color.

The other thing that would concern me is that in spite of the favorable comments about the interior, the seats have been recovered, and only barely adequately whenever they were done. The color of the leather is close, but not a match to the other leather in the car. Even though the seats do not appear torn or terribly worn, they are very tired.

I have seen very nice S4's going for 7 to 8 thousand lately, so I doubt that this car or any 78 that is complete, everything working , original and nice paint, and even with maint records, is worth much more than I said before. At the very tops about $5000. This car is not that car and will take a lot more that that to come close.

I don't think that even complete maintenance history adds much or even any additional value. If the car is in very good working condition that will add some value. The paperwork that shows why it is all working doesn't seem to me to be worth any extra value since the car speaks for itself and the value is in the condition not the proof of it. I think that is giving double value for the same thing.

Finally, I also don't think that having the same owner for a long time adds any value. In fact you might be better off with a car that has changed hands frequently, since that woud be a pretty good indication that it was in merchantable condition at least that frequently.


There! 2+2+2=6

Jerry Feather

Erik N

I have the exact same interior in my car. I think the leather in that car pictured matches better than the leather in mine, and mine's all original and not faded. The 4 seats are the only leather in there. All the rest is vinyl and naugahide, all somewhat different colors and textures. And if they have been recovered, so what? They look great IMHO. If he ends up buying it and wants original seats that badly, I would gladly swap for them!

Still, red over green is blasphemey.

bowerbird

Well said Jerry. I think the wisest move would be to only consider a car already sorted out

linderpat

So you think the Bleumax is only worth $5K? There was a feeding frenzy here last spring when it went up for sale. It's easily worth twice that amount, and I have no doubt I could get it. Here's the car - Link: http://www.928registry.org/1978-928-0834.htm
A well sorted, near original, low mileage first year example is a car worth hanging onto. In the pics above, those seats look original to me, but I'm curious to know why you think they are recovered. I stand by my advice of $4 to $5k range if all the material stuff checks out in a ppi. Of course I'd come in at $3k or so, citing the paint and a/c, but those things are fairly easily correctable over the long haul (altho a good paintjob is well over $8k), and you have something worth hanging onto.
The trouble is, you end up not wanting to put too many miles on the car, so you get another one to play with, like an S4 - yeah, that's the ticket

shmark

I'm with you Ed, your car is definitely a cut above the norm and exactly what I'm talking about. Good cars bring the money and if you EVER decide to sell, I'll bring the money. This one is a little bit away from a $5-7k car - fix the a/c, full service, respray the rockers, and detail every inch and you're nearly there. I know I would never let my car go for less than 5 figures, but there is a number that could possibly talk me out of it.

Oh and don't tell Chuck a '78 tops out at five grand....

Mrmerlin

Bower, this car is a lot of issues waiting to be sprung open.
If you dont believe that,
then by all means buy the car for whatever you think its worth.
If a paint color change doesnt bother you, and you like interior and the car drives nice,
then this may be the perfect car for you.
For me I wouldnt even consider it, nor would I suggest this car to someone else.
That is all I have to say about it.

Oh an Ed dont get all spun up about Blue Max shes in a class all her own, kinda like Kermit....
No need to snap at a baited hook from a fisherman
And Eric N the reason the leather looks so good is that it has been redyed, its still old and probably nasty, gauging from the outside
You could also have your interior looking like this if you take some Leatherique to it

linderpat

Thanks Stan, but I can only wish that - Kermit sits alone at the top, there are a couple others near it, like the Blue 82, but I'll still keep the Bleumax

Mrmerlin

Ed atleast you get to drive your pride and joy instead of having it sitting in a corner making the walls look pretty

Erik N

I have done the Leatherique thing. I think that stuff is overrated. Yes, it makes the leather more supple, but it attracts dirt like no tomorrow. Once I spun out into the dirt at an autocross (well, OK, more than once, many times actually) and the Leatherique did a GREAT job catching all the crap that flew into the air. Tire dust too. I eventually just washed the interior w/ soap and water and I think that works a lot better.

A good dye job is something else, though. Someday I will have a set of cork- colored leather sport seats, that's when the big dyeing will take place.

Back on topic, it's interesting to read in other threads you guys type about how much these cars are undervalued, yet when an apparently decent one pops up you're pretty quick to start chiseling away at the price... I think the interior of this red car looks great. That's a biggie for me. I would definitely want to see if this cars rear end has LSD, to me that is one of the benefits of an early car, along with the gear ratios.

Personally, I could probably never get over it's color change. But that's just me.

linderpat

If it's otherwise a good car, just send it up to Kevin for a quality job back to the origianl color

Erik N

Or change out the interior to black! In which case he knows where to send the leftovers.

Jerry Feather

What I see is that the seams are not quite in the right places; there are wrinkles is places that would not have them just from use; and the material for the "pillow sections" of the inserts is not as precise as they should be even with a lot of use. However, the real tell tale clue is that the inserts have been installed with hog rings in between the insert sections in a way that was never used by the factory.

Since this does not add anything to what I said before it is still 2+2+2=6.

Jerry Feather