OBDII - Bosch Hammer - diagnostic codes
12-30-2009, 10:19 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
OBDII - Bosch Hammer - diagnostic codes
Guys - what tool(s) are recommended and required for reading out diagnostics from the car's ECUs? I've seen references to the Bosch Hammer and Sharktuner, but not something that pulls it together.
I've done some quick searches, but didn't see anything pop out. Is there a place in the WSM that covers this?
Starting from the beginning:
1. What diagnostic ports are available? (e.g., LH, EZK, airbag?)
2. Where are the diagnostic plugs located (ok, I'm sure that's in the WSM)
3. What types of data can be learned from your car?
4. What tools are available (and approx cost)?
Certainly this has changed during the 78-95 run. My specific interest is in the MY94, but some history would be interesting, too.
-Matt
I've done some quick searches, but didn't see anything pop out. Is there a place in the WSM that covers this?
Starting from the beginning:
1. What diagnostic ports are available? (e.g., LH, EZK, airbag?)
2. Where are the diagnostic plugs located (ok, I'm sure that's in the WSM)
3. What types of data can be learned from your car?
4. What tools are available (and approx cost)?
Certainly this has changed during the 78-95 run. My specific interest is in the MY94, but some history would be interesting, too.
-Matt
12-30-2009, 10:48 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Matt,
There is a lot of info in the WSM but because it was first written in '78 and updated over the years, the organization is a little, uhm, compromised.
The first diagnostic connector appeared in '87 but the LH/EZK ECU's didn't support it until '88 (firmware updates are available). The early connector was a 12-pin rectangular connector on the ECU chassis, '89-on were a large 19-pin round connector under the cover next to the passenger's seat.
Available testers include the Bosch hammer with appropriate firmware, JDSporsche's handheld "Spanner", and Theo's PC-based diagnostic tester. I believe Roger at 928sRus can supply the Bosch hammer. (Note the links). Cost is in the $500 ballpark, capabilities depend on the year but generally include reading stored codes and access to some sensor inputs. For early years only the LH and EZK are accessible, for later years also the PSD, airbags, etc.
The JDSporsche Sharktuner is a different animal, it doesn't read stored codes but does provide real-time access to sensor readings as well as complete access to the various tuning maps and parameters, and comprehensive data logging. This is particularly valuable for modified engines. Cost is $920 including one set of programmable memory to replace the pROM's, available from Louie Ott's Performance Engineering and Dave Roberts' 928 Specialists.
None of these are OBDII, that didn't become standard until '96.
The best introduction would be to find one to borrow, or use during a get-together somewhere.
And without a tester, there is also very good voltmeter/o-scope troubleshooting info in the WSM-- not nearly as convenient but will resolve 80% of the common issues.
Where are you located?
Cheers, Jim
There is a lot of info in the WSM but because it was first written in '78 and updated over the years, the organization is a little, uhm, compromised.
The first diagnostic connector appeared in '87 but the LH/EZK ECU's didn't support it until '88 (firmware updates are available). The early connector was a 12-pin rectangular connector on the ECU chassis, '89-on were a large 19-pin round connector under the cover next to the passenger's seat.
Available testers include the Bosch hammer with appropriate firmware, JDSporsche's handheld "Spanner", and Theo's PC-based diagnostic tester. I believe Roger at 928sRus can supply the Bosch hammer. (Note the links). Cost is in the $500 ballpark, capabilities depend on the year but generally include reading stored codes and access to some sensor inputs. For early years only the LH and EZK are accessible, for later years also the PSD, airbags, etc.
The JDSporsche Sharktuner is a different animal, it doesn't read stored codes but does provide real-time access to sensor readings as well as complete access to the various tuning maps and parameters, and comprehensive data logging. This is particularly valuable for modified engines. Cost is $920 including one set of programmable memory to replace the pROM's, available from Louie Ott's Performance Engineering and Dave Roberts' 928 Specialists.
None of these are OBDII, that didn't become standard until '96.
The best introduction would be to find one to borrow, or use during a get-together somewhere.
And without a tester, there is also very good voltmeter/o-scope troubleshooting info in the WSM-- not nearly as convenient but will resolve 80% of the common issues.
Where are you located?
Cheers, Jim
Last edited by jcorenman; 12-30-2009 at 11:07 PM.
12-30-2009, 11:09 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
I believe the CAN bus is in use
Matt,
There is a lot of info in the WSM but because it was first written in '78 and updated over the years, the organization is a little, uhm, compromised.
$500 ballpark, capabilities depend on the year but generally include reading stored codes and access to some sensor inputs. For early years only the LH and EZK are accessible, for later years also the PSD, airbags, etc.
The best introduction would be to find one to borrow, or use during a get-together somewhere.
Where are you located?
There is a lot of info in the WSM but because it was first written in '78 and updated over the years, the organization is a little, uhm, compromised.
$500 ballpark, capabilities depend on the year but generally include reading stored codes and access to some sensor inputs. For early years only the LH and EZK are accessible, for later years also the PSD, airbags, etc.
The best introduction would be to find one to borrow, or use during a get-together somewhere.
Where are you located?
I stumbled upon this question as I'm trying to develop a service baseline on my car. Before I go there, I was upgrading the stereo to a more current Blaupunkt with some Bluetooth and MP3 features.
[stick with me on this background] What I discovered in the past few days with the radio is that the Porsche factory CD changer (CDC-1) uses a proprietary interface and protocol to communicate with the Porsche radio and therefore would have to be abandoned with a Blaupunkt radio. What I've also learned is that there really isn't a standard method of communicating between cd changers and radios - each manufacturer has rolled their own.
Not deterred, after some intense Googling, I've found a couple people who have reverse engineered the interfaces on some cd changers in order to make it work with other radios. Next I was able to get a schematic on the CDC-1 from a schematic search service.
[We're almost there] If the schematic I found is correct, the CR-1 and CDC-1 communicate over the Controller Area Network (CAN) standard bus. The communication will still be proprietary, but the electrical connection is according to the CAN standard. In digging a little more, I've learned that newer cars use CAN as almost a LAN, which allows third parties to hack keyless entry devices and some other gizmos. So far, mostly in the alarm area.
So, that inspired me to wonder if CAN was being used elsewhere and if various readout tools can be used to find out just exactly what my car is thinking.
The fact that the ECUs can be accessed from a single port next to the passenger's seat suggests there's some central consolidating / networking of car data. There is no radio connection into the car's ECU bus; the radio-changer CAN bus is just point to point.
I need to study the wiring diagrams, but it's more fun to throw it out here.
[btw, I'm in Roswell, GA, near Atlanta. Gotta update the profile!]
-Matt
12-30-2009, 11:26 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Working from JDS' and Theo's web sites, the ECUs that provide diagnostic data include:
1. EZK/LH - fuel injection and ignition
2. PSD - different
3. Airbag
4. Alarm
5. RDK - tire pressure monitoring system
I gotta say the digital dash diagnosis sounds very cool.
1. EZK/LH - fuel injection and ignition
2. PSD - different
3. Airbag
4. Alarm
5. RDK - tire pressure monitoring system
I gotta say the digital dash diagnosis sounds very cool.
12-30-2009, 11:31 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Matt,
Thanks for the background. The 928's diagnostic bus is not a CAN-bus, so I think you are out of luck for the radio project. But if all you need to do is to communicate between a head unit and CD-changer, both of which speak CAN-bus, then it shouldn't be hard to set up a CAN-bus just for that purpose-- as far as I know there is no master controller needed on a CAN-bus network.
But didn't you get the memo? CD-changers were obsoleted by iPod's and mp3-players!
If you are interested in testers for diagnostic purposes then plan to be at SITM in June-- I am sure that there will be some interesting goodies there.
Cheers, Jim
Thanks for the background. The 928's diagnostic bus is not a CAN-bus, so I think you are out of luck for the radio project. But if all you need to do is to communicate between a head unit and CD-changer, both of which speak CAN-bus, then it shouldn't be hard to set up a CAN-bus just for that purpose-- as far as I know there is no master controller needed on a CAN-bus network.
But didn't you get the memo? CD-changers were obsoleted by iPod's and mp3-players!
If you are interested in testers for diagnostic purposes then plan to be at SITM in June-- I am sure that there will be some interesting goodies there.
Cheers, Jim
12-31-2009, 03:57 AM
#6
You can read most of the engine management fault codes by counting the flashes on the check engine light.... No tester or Hammer needed....
Turn the key on, hold the accelerator to the floor for several seconds, and then count the flashes... 1500 means no faults....
It's explained in the WSM's IIRC....
Best Regards,
Turn the key on, hold the accelerator to the floor for several seconds, and then count the flashes... 1500 means no faults....
It's explained in the WSM's IIRC....
Best Regards,
Last edited by derporsche928; 12-31-2009 at 04:31 AM.
12-31-2009, 03:43 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
You will find the codes accessed by the digi-dash to be very limited. Basically restricted to emmissions related items only, IIRC.
That leaves the critical knock sensors and Hall sensor fault codes "hidden". Plus PSD faults.....
That leaves the critical knock sensors and Hall sensor fault codes "hidden". Plus PSD faults.....
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01-01-2010, 10:32 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
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It would be great if the 928 diagnostics were as comprehensive as those in Lynn's STS. By playing with the HVAC buttons, I can read every sensor on the car - including such things as the RPM of each of the transmission gearsets, etc. I can kill the injection on each cylinder individually, and can kill the spark on each cylinder individually. The manual section on using the system is a couple of hundred pages...
01-01-2010, 12:22 PM
#10
Race Car
It would be great if the 928 diagnostics were as comprehensive as those in Lynn's STS. By playing with the HVAC buttons, I can read every sensor on the car - including such things as the RPM of each of the transmission gearsets, etc. I can kill the injection on each cylinder individually, and can kill the spark on each cylinder individually. The manual section on using the system is a couple of hundred pages...
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
01-01-2010, 02:25 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
There are many version of the digi-dash software. Some of the early versions did include some LH type diagnostics with fault codes.
There's also the digi-dash self diagnostics which are triggered by shorting pins 5 and 13 on the diagnostic connector. There's a full PDF document of these functions in Jim Moorehouse's CD-ROM of Tech Info.
There's also the digi-dash self diagnostics which are triggered by shorting pins 5 and 13 on the diagnostic connector. There's a full PDF document of these functions in Jim Moorehouse's CD-ROM of Tech Info.
