FRporscheman

Hi Gents (and Ladies of course!),

First off I hope you're reading this with a belly full of food. I love Thanksgiving.

My dad and I are about to buy an 87 S4. It's got 87,000 miles, black ext with burgundy interior. And it's a 5-speed with LSD. We're going to look it over tomorrow, and poke around looking for problems.

Do you have any tips on what things to check and/or look for in an S4? I mean, I can only look at the basic car stuff because I don't know that much about S4s. I'm going to take a compression tester, and my toolbag just to check compression. What are the spots on this car that usually need maintenance, get worn out, etc? What should I watch out for? What things should I look for?

If it has a straight body with 8/10 paint, and a 7/10 interior, what's it worth?

If we did get it, I take it there is a lot that would have to be done to it immediately to keep it roadworthy. The timing belt was done 5k miles ago, but I doubt the chains or tensioners were done. How often should those be done? What are the other pitfalls to 87 S4 ownership?

I greatly appreciate all your valuable input. Happy Thanksgiving!

Richard S

Send a pm to Brian (IcemanG17), he has already seen this particular S4, and it appeared to be in good shape. Its already priced agressively for a 5spd with LSD. There's a huge Norcal support group for anything that needs to be done.

Rich

H2

Arash,

At the beginning of the 928 forum there's a thread called "For New Members" or something like that. Good info there. Among other things in there, you'll find links to Jim Morehouse's extensive PPI checklist. Better check it out. It can save you a lot of money and heartache. If you get a good 928 that's been well maintained, you'll love it. The following link should work.

https://rennlist.com/techarticles/92...inspectfaq.htm

H2

namasgt

I don't think chain tensioner and pad failure is the same on stock S4s as you see on 968s and 16 valve 944s. Not many people change them on their 32 valve cars. Although someone on the 944 forum sad it has happened a few times on boosted S4 engines ??
One thing you want to check is crank end play, this is critical on automatic cars before purchase but some have said that TBF has happened on a few manual cars too. Do you know if this car was tracked ?

pcar928fan

This is a 5spd car so no crank end play to worry about.

S4's always need a good steering rack check... See that it has not been leaking from the boots, hoses or anywhere else. Though hoses are easy to deal with if it is a rack leak they are nearly $1k for the part and another $1k to install.

These cars need to be aligned by someone who actually UNDERSTANDS 928's...if not you will wear out a brand new set of front tires in about 2000 miles. YUCK! Done right...WOW these cars are fun!

A/C (in particular if it has the rear A/C option) can be a real PITA to keep running right. When working right they will freeze you out though so keep that in mind when you are checking it out. So too the vacuum actuators behind the dash that move the air around. Those are very hard to get to so can be expensive to R&R...

No one has said anything about price and because I have so many of them and love them so much I am probably to optimistic in my view on value (vs. what they actually sell for) but I would say the miles on this car would put it in the mid mile range for an '87 and that 5spd and in particular LSD cars are worth $5k more than an auto trans car... As you note if exterior 8+ and interior 8+ (taking its age in to consideration here) I would say anything under $15k and you would have a deal. Again that presumes that mechanically it all checks out too.

Good luck and I can't wait to see pics!

danglerb

Depends on what you are happy with, an 8/7 car can cost about the same to make into a 9/9 as a 6/6.

Maybe its just me, but the only reason I would buy an S4 5 spd instead of a GT is price, and the price would have to be VERY good. If I am going to spend some serious money on a 5 spd, its going to be a GT, so a figure like $15k wouldn't have me even slowing down in the ad listings.

jcorenman

Arash,

Good luck tomorrow! If you like the 944/968's then you will love the 928.

Do you do your own work? Things get much more reasonably priced if so.

Do you know the history? If possible find out who has been working on the car, and go through the receipts carefully. Timing belt is important, 5K miles is good but how long ago? (5 or 6 years is when most folks want to change them).

Check for any sign of coolant leak from the front, and pop off the intake tubes and watch the cam belt through the "vent" holes-- should track straight with the engine running with no signs of distress or furry edges.

Timing chains and tensioner are a non-issue, maybe a WYAIT at 150K+ miles?? Ditto thrust-bearing (TBF) problems, not an issue with 5-speeds.

Compression problems are rare and usually the result of some other mishap (e.g. timing belt failure-- the other "TBF"-- and bent valves). It's a fair bit of effort to check compression-- the plugs are down deep holes, clean out any accumulated crap with an air gun before removing them. It is not unusual to see a bit of oil around the base of the spark-plugs, there's a cam-cover o-ring halfway down that can leak with age-- indicates that rubber is generally getting aged.

You'll need a spark-plug socket, u-joint and extension(s), things get in the way. And pull the fuse for the fuel pump -- #42 -- so you don't flood the engine while cranking. And I also disconnect the coil-drivers (electronic box on driver's side, just behind the bumper) so I don't get zapped from the wires lying around.

Fuses are in the central electric (CE) panel under the passenger's feet, numbered from the left in groups of five. There should be a fuse/relay chart on the back of the footboard, and a little yellow fuse-puller tool clipped to the top of the CE panel.

Check the front tires, if they are not worn on the inside (assuming they are not brand-new) then the alignment is probably ok. But as James mentioned, that is something that often gets messed up. And rack issues are not uncommon- fluid gets ignored which gets dirty and causes the rack to wear which makes the fluid dirty...

Rebuilt racks range from 400-ish from 928int'l to 900-ish for a ZF plus a few hours to install and align. If the alignment, rack, mounting bushings and tie-rods are all good then the car steers like it is laser-guided. If it wanders or feels vague then one or more of those things need attention.

Good luck and have fun!!

jcorenman

If you bought a S4/5-spd and swapped cams (modified S3 or Colin's GT+ cams) you would still be ahead in terms of cost. The only other significant difference is the rear-end ratio and that's one of those tradeoff things, my preference would be somewhere between the S4's 2.20 and the GT's 2.73.

FRporscheman

Thanks for all the helpful tips! Luckily I do all my own work. I'm very apt with the 968 so I'm sure I could handle the 4v heads of the S4. My dad's also owned a couple of S's so I mostly know my way around a 928... the basics anyway... like how the rear suspension is special.

I'm not worried about cost as much as whether it will be a good car. My dad got his black/burgundy 964 stolen a while back and he's just been in a rut since then. Not able to find/afford a good car, and depressed about it. Then this stupid recession. Finally in the last month business has picked up and we can barely afford this S4, and it matches the color and speed of that 964, so I really want this to work out well for him.

What makes a GT so much better than an S4? I was thinking if we did get an S4 we could get the S3 cams (modded), RMB, and probably call it a day. If it's faster than my car he'll be satisfied I'm sure.

This 928 won't be for me Harvey, 928s are not for me. I can appreciate them as killer cars but I'm just helping my dad with his purchase. He is my opposite - he could never buy a 968... well beyond model choice we get along great, LOL!

namasgt

You can probably get more power from an S4 with moded S3 cams, Other than that what makes the GT better, is that its rare, something Like a 100 of them were sold in the U.S. Only 553 were made from 89 to 91. a good low mile garage queen could fetch around $30 K.
Theres a supercharged one for sale right now, for around $20 K.

Also, these cars (S4, GT, GTS) do have oiling problems, and it has happened a few times that the # 2/6 bearing have failed during track use. I think 944s have the same problem on #2 rod bearing ???

M. Requin

For a very comprehensive checklist look here: https://rennlist.com/forums/6975867-post213.html

pcar928fan

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I know of WAY to many GT's (90/91) that have blown up with DE and/or Auto-X use where I don't know of any 5spd S4's (87-89) that have done the same... so I tell anyone looking to use a 5spd 928 for any amount of track use to stay away from the 90/91 GT model... I know there are plenty here who will not take well to that comment, but it is my experience. I have seen a whole bunch of GT's blow up on track but never a 5spd S4... something about the extra 300 rpm to redline and the higher (numerical) rear end ratio is all anyone can come up with...

worf928

Thanks Martin

I've added the links to my signature so that they don't get buried in history.

danglerb

I think the GT's get blown up because they keep whispering "go faster" in your ear.

pcar928fan

^^^^^^
You could be right!