TIME TO BUY A NEW CAR...MY FAVORITES ARE>>>
09-07-2009, 08:02 AM
#1
TIME TO BUY A NEW CAR...MY FAVORITES ARE>>>
I have been for 20 plus year an ardent fan of the car, started with a ROUGH cdnmy1980 which despite its continual foibles alwyas made me smile to drive - a business move to califronia necessitated the sale but I have been hooked since....went to a 325is .....then a 95 m3 which 180000 miles later i still have...Never got to the e46 ...BUT I have been researching the e92 m3 carefully and with dealers still desperate to get the off the lots There are some bargains to be had. Never do I expect the m3 to match the sense of the 928...modern bits and reliability excluded...I DO however love the idea of taking an early 90s 928 and superchargin it...would horsepower to weight distinctions could be comparable..??? If im not mistaken the later 928s are lighter than the current M3...
Budget for the 928 is subjective but with much less$$$ could i put together shark that would at least compare with the e92??? Cosmetics included....OOOOHHH WHAT TO DO....any comments appreciated
Budget for the 928 is subjective but with much less$$$ could i put together shark that would at least compare with the e92??? Cosmetics included....OOOOHHH WHAT TO DO....any comments appreciated
09-07-2009, 10:05 AM
#3
There's at least one person here with a new M3, maybe he'll chime in. A guy I work with has a brand new M3 convertible and I got to drive it the other day, amazing car and eight grand echoing off the downtown buildings with the top down is pretty cool. It's about 3700lbs with 420hp so yes, it's pretty easy to build a 928 that will keep up in a straight line. However to get one to keep up in the curves will take a bit more money, as the M chassis/suspension is nothing short of amazing.
09-07-2009, 11:17 AM
#4
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I've driven the last gen M3 and I own a 928. If someone offered me a new M3 in trade for the GT I would turn them away. The driving experience is completely different and it really depends on what you want. Personally if I didn't care for the video game like driving experience of the M3, maybe it was the SMG? Anyways I suggest you drive both and decide. Realize that the 928 will probably feel a whole lot faster and with an updated suspension it handle as good or better than many of todays cars.
09-07-2009, 01:13 PM
#5
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Silver GTS on eBay
I have been for 20 plus year an ardent fan of the car, started with a ROUGH cdnmy1980 which despite its continual foibles alwyas made me smile to drive - a business move to califronia necessitated the sale but I have been hooked since....went to a 325is .....then a 95 m3 which 180000 miles later i still have...Never got to the e46 ...BUT I have been researching the e92 m3 carefully and with dealers still desperate to get the off the lots There are some bargains to be had. Never do I expect the m3 to match the sense of the 928...modern bits and reliability excluded...I DO however love the idea of taking an early 90s 928 and superchargin it...would horsepower to weight distinctions could be comparable..??? If im not mistaken the later 928s are lighter than the current M3...
Budget for the 928 is subjective but with much less$$$ could i put together shark that would at least compare with the e92??? Cosmetics included....OOOOHHH WHAT TO DO....any comments appreciated
Budget for the 928 is subjective but with much less$$$ could i put together shark that would at least compare with the e92??? Cosmetics included....OOOOHHH WHAT TO DO....any comments appreciated
09-07-2009, 07:13 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
California means no super charger, normal NA hp increases start cheap and get expensive fast.
I disagree with the premise that two cars can be equally appealing, get more time with them and a clear winner will emerge. Even if you like them both the same, one is bound to be much more practical than the other.
I don't follow the logic of picking a car by zero to 60 times, especially not a GT or sports car. All 928's are pretty fast, but none are likely one of the fastest cars in town, not stop light to stop light.
I disagree with the premise that two cars can be equally appealing, get more time with them and a clear winner will emerge. Even if you like them both the same, one is bound to be much more practical than the other.
I don't follow the logic of picking a car by zero to 60 times, especially not a GT or sports car. All 928's are pretty fast, but none are likely one of the fastest cars in town, not stop light to stop light.
09-07-2009, 08:49 PM
#7
Race Director
Speaking as a E92 M3 DCT owner a race 928 and previous street 928's....heres my thoughts:
A supercharged S4 will be nearly as fast as the M3 (or more depending on boost)...however it is not smog legal in CA and will have reliablity problems (as all 20+ year old cars will) compared to the M3....the M3 is a brand new car with a 4 year 50k miles ZERO cost maintainence warranty...they pay for everything....except tires & gas...
I've had my M3 for 15 months with ZERO problems.....it is VERY fast...especially using launch mode with the dual clutch transmission....it is limited at an indictated 170mph and it sure doesn't take long to get there....it comes off the line VERY hard, I've seen up to 1.21g vs around .55g for my stock automatic S4....the shifts are super quick too....and the sound of the 4.0L V8 with new mufflers (corsa) at 8400rpm is just intoxicating...I love the sound of the 928, but the M3 V8 is different...more of a high pitched scream vs the more booming 928...
Comparing a stock 928, even a 5 speed GT or GTS to the M3 really isn't fair....they weigh about the same (mine is just under 3600lbs with perfect 50-50 weight balance) but the M3 has far more power and more gears with all the modern electronics that go with it (traction control, stereo, nav, etc)....whats funny is they cost about the same new (not counting for inflation of course)...
I do like the handling of the 928 better, mostly due to its lower height and lower seating position...you sit so high in the M3 that you get a sense of dive-roll-squat that you don't get in the 928....
Yes you could make a 928 that will outperform the M3.....either through boost or engine mods, but it still is a 20 year old car and is going to have issues the new M3 will not....
another aspect of the M3 I like is its comfort....the ride is much better than the 928 and it is quite a bit quieter on the inside when the windows are rolled up....
To put things in perspective......I bought the M3.....then bought a 928 racecar (cause I'm addicted to track crack)...then sold the 928 street car....
A supercharged S4 will be nearly as fast as the M3 (or more depending on boost)...however it is not smog legal in CA and will have reliablity problems (as all 20+ year old cars will) compared to the M3....the M3 is a brand new car with a 4 year 50k miles ZERO cost maintainence warranty...they pay for everything....except tires & gas...
I've had my M3 for 15 months with ZERO problems.....it is VERY fast...especially using launch mode with the dual clutch transmission....it is limited at an indictated 170mph and it sure doesn't take long to get there....it comes off the line VERY hard, I've seen up to 1.21g vs around .55g for my stock automatic S4....the shifts are super quick too....and the sound of the 4.0L V8 with new mufflers (corsa) at 8400rpm is just intoxicating...I love the sound of the 928, but the M3 V8 is different...more of a high pitched scream vs the more booming 928...
Comparing a stock 928, even a 5 speed GT or GTS to the M3 really isn't fair....they weigh about the same (mine is just under 3600lbs with perfect 50-50 weight balance) but the M3 has far more power and more gears with all the modern electronics that go with it (traction control, stereo, nav, etc)....whats funny is they cost about the same new (not counting for inflation of course)...
I do like the handling of the 928 better, mostly due to its lower height and lower seating position...you sit so high in the M3 that you get a sense of dive-roll-squat that you don't get in the 928....
Yes you could make a 928 that will outperform the M3.....either through boost or engine mods, but it still is a 20 year old car and is going to have issues the new M3 will not....
another aspect of the M3 I like is its comfort....the ride is much better than the 928 and it is quite a bit quieter on the inside when the windows are rolled up....
To put things in perspective......I bought the M3.....then bought a 928 racecar (cause I'm addicted to track crack)...then sold the 928 street car....
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09-07-2009, 09:25 PM
#8
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I swapped out an e46M3 for my current S4, and owned both for several months.
The driving experience was utterly different. The M3 was much more modern feeling in almost all ways - it had all those conviences like sat-nav, auto-diming-mirror, etc etc. The M3 motor was an endless rush to crazy high revs, with a chasis which was very nicely matched to the motor. I tracked the M3 at Laguna in relatively stock form, and the best part was being able to lay into the power exiting tight corners and have the chasis cleanly drift without going into oversteer or understeer.
The M3 was significantly taller and had more lean than the 928, which is lower and has a overall more hunkered-down stance. No big surprise, the M3 was a bit better in the ride comfort department.
In contrast the 928 was proudly old school in every way. Controls are heavier - steering, throttle, everything. Engine note (especially with an RMB) is more refined 60's muscle car than 8k-mechanical-symphony. 928 rear seat is more punitive to your would-be adult "passengers" than the M3's rear accomodations.
In the end, it came down to a couple things:
1. I see M3's every time I go more than 2 miles in this town. When I catch a 928 of any kind, it's an occasion.
2. I can insure and license the 928 for just about nothing - the DMV and my insurance company both don't know enough about it to want to charge any premiums.
3. Driving the 928 had much more sense of "occasion" than the M3, which was fun but somehow so competent that on the street it felt a bit more boring.
Now that I've added an extra 1.5 liters to the 928 motor, it's probably got the legs to hang with the newest M3, and it still costs almost nothing to insure and license.
The M3 would be the ideal car for someone who needs a single vehicle to satisfy both your everyday driving and trips to the track. This is the M3's sweet spot. I split my M3 into a nice friendly 06 TSX for sitting-outside-in-the-office-lot and rainy-day-grocery-duty, plus my 88 S4 for weekend romps - illicit wheelspin incidents, and hopefully a trip or two to a closed course where it can be flung about a bit harder without meriting law enforcement attention.
Both are very worthy cars.
The driving experience was utterly different. The M3 was much more modern feeling in almost all ways - it had all those conviences like sat-nav, auto-diming-mirror, etc etc. The M3 motor was an endless rush to crazy high revs, with a chasis which was very nicely matched to the motor. I tracked the M3 at Laguna in relatively stock form, and the best part was being able to lay into the power exiting tight corners and have the chasis cleanly drift without going into oversteer or understeer.
The M3 was significantly taller and had more lean than the 928, which is lower and has a overall more hunkered-down stance. No big surprise, the M3 was a bit better in the ride comfort department.
In contrast the 928 was proudly old school in every way. Controls are heavier - steering, throttle, everything. Engine note (especially with an RMB) is more refined 60's muscle car than 8k-mechanical-symphony. 928 rear seat is more punitive to your would-be adult "passengers" than the M3's rear accomodations.
In the end, it came down to a couple things:
1. I see M3's every time I go more than 2 miles in this town. When I catch a 928 of any kind, it's an occasion.
2. I can insure and license the 928 for just about nothing - the DMV and my insurance company both don't know enough about it to want to charge any premiums.
3. Driving the 928 had much more sense of "occasion" than the M3, which was fun but somehow so competent that on the street it felt a bit more boring.
Now that I've added an extra 1.5 liters to the 928 motor, it's probably got the legs to hang with the newest M3, and it still costs almost nothing to insure and license.
The M3 would be the ideal car for someone who needs a single vehicle to satisfy both your everyday driving and trips to the track. This is the M3's sweet spot. I split my M3 into a nice friendly 06 TSX for sitting-outside-in-the-office-lot and rainy-day-grocery-duty, plus my 88 S4 for weekend romps - illicit wheelspin incidents, and hopefully a trip or two to a closed course where it can be flung about a bit harder without meriting law enforcement attention.
Both are very worthy cars.
09-08-2009, 02:28 AM
#9
Thanks for all the responses folks - yeah certainly the 928 is an emotional buy and the styling is also hard to beat -especially in the sub 60k range..and i love the rarity...but...admitedly...getting to the point of maybe the bimmer for everyday use and reliability (less down time) and if all is good a cheaper (need to tinker on) 928 - when i can justify it...though you guys on this board are so much more pleasant...( ;. Either way any leads on solid 928's? The GTS IS priced well...thanks for that tip kevbolacy...
09-08-2009, 02:53 AM
#10
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If you're looking at annual "costs", the annual depreciation on a ~$80k new M3 (including tax, delivery, etc in most states) will be enough thousands per year to lavish truely heroic levels of maintenance and upkeep on the 928...
The flipside is that the new M3 will be vastly more likely to just ask for fuel and oil changes for several years as it bleeds virtual value, but is ready to take you to work each morning without a single hiccup nor need to have the flex plate inspected
The flipside is that the new M3 will be vastly more likely to just ask for fuel and oil changes for several years as it bleeds virtual value, but is ready to take you to work each morning without a single hiccup nor need to have the flex plate inspected
09-08-2009, 03:06 AM
#11
Race Director
If you're looking at annual "costs", the annual depreciation on a ~$80k new M3 (including tax, delivery, etc in most states) will be enough thousands per year to lavish truely heroic levels of maintenance and upkeep on the 928...
The flipside is that the new M3 will be vastly more likely to just ask for fuel and oil changes for several years as it bleeds virtual value, but is ready to take you to work each morning without a single hiccup nor need to have the flex plate inspected
The flipside is that the new M3 will be vastly more likely to just ask for fuel and oil changes for several years as it bleeds virtual value, but is ready to take you to work each morning without a single hiccup nor need to have the flex plate inspected
With that said....when I bought the M3 I wanted a daily driver I could swap wheels out on and track on the weekends.....the M3 will do this VERY well...but it still has the compromises that come with a "street" car....once you get used to driving "track" or "race" cars on the track...street cars just feel sloppy.....and the deal on the race 928 came along....so I bought that.....
After riding in some of Doc Browns creations I am sure that Shawns stroker CAN keep up with the M3....but it cost quite a bit too.....but they do make strokers for the M3 V8 too.....only .6L more...but good for about 550hp vs the stock 450 or so (after tuning) with far more torque...
If you need a daily driver.....I think there are better options than a 928...yes plenty of people do it..but no matter how good a 20+ year old car is, it will have issues..... 928's are great "hobby" cars.....something you don't have to drive everyday....
Whats really stupid is when I owned my pristine street 928...I hated driving it, since it meant leaving it in parking lots....I just hated the thought of it sitting out there unprotected.....but I have no problems leaving my way more expensive M3 in the same lot....go figure....
