Injectors - What's the Latest?
09-04-2009, 02:38 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
By the way, here's a good injector resource: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
Here's a Canadian firm that I have found to be a good source of all things fuel related: http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?...atus=0&Tp=&Bc=
Here's something that I'd like someone to try. Genesis has these new dual cone spray pattern injectors. For our siamesed 4-valve intake ports, those would be ideal. The spray pattern would hit the back of the valves and disperse perfectly from there, cooling the valve in the process. Most of those are EV6 connectors, but if someone finds a model with an EV1 connector, those should be tried out. I called around and the max size is 440 cc or 39lb/h, so these are not for me. If they'd make them bigger, I'd be all over them.
Here's a Canadian firm that I have found to be a good source of all things fuel related: http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?...atus=0&Tp=&Bc=
Here's something that I'd like someone to try. Genesis has these new dual cone spray pattern injectors. For our siamesed 4-valve intake ports, those would be ideal. The spray pattern would hit the back of the valves and disperse perfectly from there, cooling the valve in the process. Most of those are EV6 connectors, but if someone finds a model with an EV1 connector, those should be tried out. I called around and the max size is 440 cc or 39lb/h, so these are not for me. If they'd make them bigger, I'd be all over them.
Honestly I had no idea that the changes in the spray pattern could affect engine life at all. With the batch firing thing going on, I'm thinking by the time each cylinder gets around to sucking in some air/fuel it's pretty much a homogeneous cloud.
I was just thinking the 4 holers atomize the fuel better, but I don't know. Anyone?
I was just thinking the 4 holers atomize the fuel better, but I don't know. Anyone?
09-04-2009, 02:42 PM
#17
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Since L-Jet has low impedance injectors (LH uses high impedance) once you swap fuel rails you can safely use LH injectors with L-Jet. You cannot go the other way around.
09-04-2009, 02:56 PM
#18
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The fuel rails from the 32V cars have the same spacing, I think it would be cheaper / easier to adapt later fuel rails than trying to find affordable barbed injectors.
Since L-Jet has low impedance injectors (LH uses high impedance) once you swap fuel rails you can safely use LH injectors with L-Jet. You cannot go the other way around.
Since L-Jet has low impedance injectors (LH uses high impedance) once you swap fuel rails you can safely use LH injectors with L-Jet. You cannot go the other way around.
09-04-2009, 03:08 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
Early cars have a barbed hose fitting, and pretty much nobody makes that style in a modern injector so you need to fabricate fuel rails to use a modern clip style injector, or modify the injectors to accept hoses (not good imho).
Places that clean injectors usually have enough "stock" that after cleaning, replacing internal filters, etc. they flow test and then select matching sets (some of yours, some of their stock). I suspect a matched set is a GREAT idea since our cars are bank fired (all injectors are on or off at the same time) with no way to correct for flow variation.
Most people seem happy with the newer styles of injectors, but I don't think we have any hard evidence either way.
As I understand it, we need a slightly different oring to seal on our manifolds, but other than Roger I don't recall a source for them, or know if various vendors and cleaners supply the correct ones or even can supply them.
Places that clean injectors usually have enough "stock" that after cleaning, replacing internal filters, etc. they flow test and then select matching sets (some of yours, some of their stock). I suspect a matched set is a GREAT idea since our cars are bank fired (all injectors are on or off at the same time) with no way to correct for flow variation.
Most people seem happy with the newer styles of injectors, but I don't think we have any hard evidence either way.
As I understand it, we need a slightly different oring to seal on our manifolds, but other than Roger I don't recall a source for them, or know if various vendors and cleaners supply the correct ones or even can supply them.
09-04-2009, 03:24 PM
#20
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Reason why I suggested using a 32V rail - same spacing as a 16V.
09-04-2009, 03:39 PM
#21
928 Collector
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Hi Mike, as always it's a pleasure hearing from you 
I'm not sure which way I'll go ... I have local flow tester companies andthey are very reasonable. The 75 bux/set is very enticing but they are used. Effectively therefore it is 75/set to flow .... better than the 200 or so for mine.
All the best and thanks for your advice (and others)
Heinrich
I'm not sure which way I'll go ... I have local flow tester companies andthey are very reasonable. The 75 bux/set is very enticing but they are used. Effectively therefore it is 75/set to flow .... better than the 200 or so for mine.All the best and thanks for your advice (and others)
Heinrich
Hey Heinrich, how's it going?
When I did my top end refresh I did a lot of research on here and elsewhere on the web and IMO, the fuel injector is a wear item.
Having them cleaned and flow tested only tells you if they are still flowing the right amount but if some are not then what do you do? Replace a few?
'Flow matching' requires more than 8 so they can test them and give you the set of 8 that flows closest to each other, so if you only have the original 8 they won't be able to do it.
Anything with moving parts can wear out and anything with fuel going through it should be replaced on some kind of schedule if you ask me. Just my $.928
Oh, I went with the Ford 4-holers from Blue Oval Racing, dropped right in, no muss no fuss.
When I did my top end refresh I did a lot of research on here and elsewhere on the web and IMO, the fuel injector is a wear item.
Having them cleaned and flow tested only tells you if they are still flowing the right amount but if some are not then what do you do? Replace a few?
'Flow matching' requires more than 8 so they can test them and give you the set of 8 that flows closest to each other, so if you only have the original 8 they won't be able to do it.
Anything with moving parts can wear out and anything with fuel going through it should be replaced on some kind of schedule if you ask me. Just my $.928
Oh, I went with the Ford 4-holers from Blue Oval Racing, dropped right in, no muss no fuss.
09-04-2009, 04:37 PM
#23
Race Director
Heinrich
I also put the newer ford racing 4 pintle 19lb in Sharky...worked GREAT....seemed to gain a bit of HP too....
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injec...sPORSCHEVW.asp
I also put the newer ford racing 4 pintle 19lb in Sharky...worked GREAT....seemed to gain a bit of HP too....
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injec...sPORSCHEVW.asp
09-04-2009, 04:49 PM
#24
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For a standard engines there is no need for anything else than standard injectors. Mr Injector http://www.mrinjector.us/ offer cleaning and flow testing and sell components (filters, o-rings, washers and pintle caps) for your own overhaul, to very reasonable prices on ebay.
09-04-2009, 05:13 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
The one-hole is pretty much triangular spray, so the majority of mixing doesn't happen until right near the valves. The 4-hole spray pattern reaches full-width in about 1/3 the distance from the pintle compared to the 1-hole.
Intuitively (warning - no empirical observation or solid theory involved here, pure speculation), I'd say that you'll get less fuel pooling at the valve when the injectors are batch firing for a different cylinder, as there's bigger volume in which to achieve saturation of air/fuel.
I had both types jury-rigged up on my bench to compare, using a length of fuel line filled with injector cleaner, a couple of hose clamps, air at 50psi, and a test box I use which has a button I can tap to apply voltage in short bursts.
From what I saw, I'm definitely going with 4-hole next time I have my '89 apart (did intake job on it 18 months ago and stuck with stock).
09-04-2009, 05:28 PM
#27
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I guess my comment earlier was geared around potential hot spots being generated in places that the factory didn't plan for. Any chance that can happen? Again, I'm not an expert but I am curious...
09-04-2009, 05:28 PM
#28
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The spray pattern is very different on the 4-holes.
The one-hole is pretty much triangular spray, so the majority of mixing doesn't happen until right near the valves. The 4-hole spray pattern reaches full-width in about 1/3 the distance from the pintle compared to the 1-hole.
Intuitively (warning - no empirical observation or solid theory involved here, pure speculation), I'd say that you'll get less fuel pooling at the valve when the injectors are batch firing for a different cylinder, as there's bigger volume in which to achieve saturation of air/fuel.
I had both types jury-rigged up on my bench to compare, using a length of fuel line filled with injector cleaner, a couple of hose clamps, air at 50psi, and a test box I use which has a button I can tap to apply voltage in short bursts.
From what I saw, I'm definitely going with 4-hole next time I have my '89 apart (did intake job on it 18 months ago and stuck with stock).
The one-hole is pretty much triangular spray, so the majority of mixing doesn't happen until right near the valves. The 4-hole spray pattern reaches full-width in about 1/3 the distance from the pintle compared to the 1-hole.
Intuitively (warning - no empirical observation or solid theory involved here, pure speculation), I'd say that you'll get less fuel pooling at the valve when the injectors are batch firing for a different cylinder, as there's bigger volume in which to achieve saturation of air/fuel.
I had both types jury-rigged up on my bench to compare, using a length of fuel line filled with injector cleaner, a couple of hose clamps, air at 50psi, and a test box I use which has a button I can tap to apply voltage in short bursts.
From what I saw, I'm definitely going with 4-hole next time I have my '89 apart (did intake job on it 18 months ago and stuck with stock).
09-04-2009, 05:42 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
The spray pattern is very different on the 4-holes. The one-hole is pretty much triangular spray, so the majority of mixing doesn't happen until right near the valves. The 4-hole spray pattern reaches full-width in about 1/3 the distance from the pintle compared to the 1-hole. Intuitively (warning - no empirical observation or solid theory involved here, pure speculation), I'd say that you'll get less fuel pooling at the valve when the injectors are batch firing for a different cylinder, as there's bigger volume in which to achieve saturation of air/fuel.
- the spot where fuel pools is the short side floor of the port where velocity is often low
- the fuel can't pool on the intake valve because the high velocity at low lifts sucks it right in
- they call the pooled fuel "tau" which needs to be taken into account when fueling the engine in transient conditions, tau influences how much new fuel needs to be injected this cycle
This from memory.
09-04-2009, 05:55 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
All injectors are 12v, and modern I think are all high impedance (14 to 16 ohms), some of the older ones were low impedance (2 or 3 ohm?). You can use high impedance injectors with a low impedance controller, but not low impedance injectors on a high impedance controller (burns them out, or blows fuses).