soontobered84

I talked to Lance, and he hadn't disconnected the battery so that the LH and EZK would relearn that an O2 sensor was now present. Apparently, one oof the wires in his old O2 sensor was broken he found when he took the old one off. He's gonna reboot the computers tonight. Hopefully that does it.
I am reasonably sure that his TPS and ISV are functioning properly, but that his A/F ratio is just goofed up from the lack of an functioning O2 sensor.
We'll see.

JHowell37

I'll add:

Check the vacuum hose that goes down behind the engine, to the transmission. You need to visually inspect as much as you can. It's subjected to a lot of heat, and those hard vacuum hoses can collapse when they get hot enough. If that happens, it won't show up as a leak, but the transmission will shift hard.

PorKen

LH2.2, and EZF do no learn, or remember. They are powered only with the key on, and have no constant 12V wiring.

It's likely a combination of problems, but most likely the idle control valve, and/or Temp II sensor (measure each terminal to ground, should be a few hundred ohms or less when warm).

Lance A

Well I disconnected the battery to reset the computer. The car is definitely running better, but still suffers the same problems. It was late so i didnt travel far in case something went wrong. I only drove it for about 15 minutes and the temp gauge was slightly below the middle. It now tries to idle around 400 rpm, so I assume yall are right about the idle needing to be reset. I plan on taking it for a more extensive drive tomorrow in order to get it to its normal operating temp. How long does it take for the car to complete the learning process?

Porken-
Thanks for the repair list, although I think it made my blood pressure spike.

PorKen

'85-'86 computers don't learn.

You really have to figure on spending at least $500 just on the basics to make up for PO neglect. $1500 (or more) to make it as new or better. The parts should last another 100K miles though!

Having proper idle control is so transparent when it works right, and is a big pain when it doesn't. It is a big part of the 32V digital engine controls. The '85-'86 idle control isn't perfect, though, even when new.

You can adjust the idle speed so it will run better for now by adjusting the idle bypass screw at the front of the throttle body. You'll need a 7mm socket on an extension. Turn CCW to raise the idle speed.

Mike Frye

Lance,

OK, so you can keep it running long enough to get warmed up so that's good, you'll need that. As Ken said, I think the first step is to get someone else to keep it running long enough to turn the idle bypass screw on the front of the MAF (or just turn it CCW once and then try starting it, repeat until it comes up a bit). Trying to idle low is better than trying to idle high (high means unmetered air is getting in after the MAF somewhere). So you may be almost there already. Is it still only surging when you first start it or is it all the time. Maybe you can describe all of your symptoms from start up to shut down so the tech heads on here can get a better picture of what's going on. Be very descriptive (indicator lights that come on or don't, how many cranks to start, where the idle oscillation range is (400 to 1000 or 400 to 1500, how long it takes to settle down if it does...)

Do you have the WSM CDs? The procedure for setting the CO and base idle are not that complicated and if you've already tested the vacuum lines with a mightyvac, that's probably the biggest hurdle. On the CDs, CD 1 there is a folder called \fuel injection systems\ and in there is a PDF called '85 Test Plan EZF and LH.pdf' and another called '84,85,86 Test Plan EZK and LH.pdf'. These two documents are worth the price of the CD set if you ask me. In addition, if you get the 'blink'r' from Ken (Porken) you will be able to confidently set the CO and then set the idle.

Ken's list may seem long (and expensive) but it's really just to get to a baseline of being a dependable car. Once you're there you can count on just turning the key and going anywhere you want to go without even thinking about whether it will start or how it will run. You started with a few basics like plugs and wires which is good, but it's really going to need a thorough top-end going over, if not a complete refresh before you can be confident that it can be a daily driver.

soontobered84

Lance,
There will be a lot of knowledgeable folk at the Tech session tomorrow. We should be able to get it sorted it out there.

PorKen

Hard to tell, but I put a lot of the extended list into this shopworn, 150K+ mile, '86.5, except for ICV, and O2 sensor. (It already had a rebuilt MAF.) Even with all the new stuff, it would not start without using the pedal. After getting it started the exhaust smelled rich, and even when warm, it would often die when selecting a gear, and would run lower in rpms when the A/C was turned on. I could not get a blink from the Blink'r, so I figured the O2 sensor was dead, and the engine would die in idle set mode. I swapped the ICV with another old one, but it still had idle trouble.

Yesterday, I put in a new O2 sensor, and a new ICV, and even thought the engine was cold, it started right up, and idled nicely (very satisfying). Once it was up to temp, just a few turns of the CO, and idle bypass screws, and the Blink'r was blink'n. It still looks a bit scrappy, but starts in what seems like one revolution, and idles perfectly, now.

Note: I've found that setting the idle speed to ~700 rpm in idle set mode, instead of 680, makes starting, and idling much more reliable on S3's.

Lance A

Well it was running good enough for me to try and make it to a tech session in arlington today, but after gassing it up last night i got curious about what the odo reset button did. (I didnt know what it was at the time) When i pressed it i opened a whole new can of worms. Look at The Death Button. Dont press yours! thread i posted last night and you will see what I mean. Now im renting a car hauler in order to get to the tech session. Maybe we will figure things out. Let me know if yall have any other input.

Lance A

Prior to my new problem, the car required a minimal amount of gas to start. (this is all while in park) Once it was running i had to back off the accelerator very slowly to prevent it from stalling. After i removed my foot from the accelerator the car would fluctuate between 200 and 700 rpm. After 3 or 4 rounds it would stabilize at 400 rpm. The throttle was very responsive and it had full rpm range. Once again if i abruptly removed my foot from the accelerator it would die. After putting the car in gear every things fine until i let off the gas. Plenty of power, but it did produce a decent amount of black smoke due to running rich. (plus the smell) However if i needed to slow down quickly i had to feed it a little gas at the same time. If i eased off the gas while driving it would idle hunt but with a smaller range of variation, and stabilize more quickly. It blows carbon build up out the exhaust hear and there but i figured that was also due to running rich along with the fact that it hadnt run in 4 years. After my 30 min drive last night which included getting on it a few times i checked the cat and it was not glowing red. The engine temp never rose above the half way point, and after easing up it stayed slightly above the 1/4 marker. Then i hit the button and everything went to hell.