I'm popping my cherry...and you're invited to help.
10-15-2008, 03:19 AM
#46
Racer
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10-15-2008, 03:55 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NE PA
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I really appreciate everyone's posts. There seem to be a few serious, serious misconceptions though.
I haven't ignored anything, eug. I've read all these posts with great interest and respect. Just because I don't immediately drop the cars that I'm looking at for one that someone offers here doesn't mean I'm ignoring anyone. It means I'm being cautious. Caution is best for someone in my position. You'll notice that I haven't bought the cars I originally posted about.
Then there were a lot of other posts about people regarding how much money they've spent on their cars and then asserting that I'm expecting to spend none. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I thought I could just drop coin on one of these things and then put nothing but gas into it for the next 5 years, I would have bought that full European leather black/tan 5-speed beauty or the Utah concourse recently on eBay.
The whole reason I am even considering an $8K car is because I'm EXPECTING to have to put money into it over the coming years and I figure I'd be better off with a low starting price. I've been reading this board for a month and zero-effort is the last thing I'm expecting. Even if I buy from someone on this list, it would be foolish for me to expect a maintenance-free vehicle.
David, that's a beautiful ride, but a black interior is a step above burgundy for me, unless it's black on the outside, too. Ideally, I'd like a tan interior which both of the ones I'm looking at are. Gray or linen interiors might work for me, too.
Actually, I got the PPI on the gray/tan one today and it's got lot's of leaks and other minor problems in addition to the cosmetic and A/C problems. Here was the one I was considering: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=160288638126 So I'm passing on this one.
I'm still 50/50 on the other one. Like I said, for $3.1K I can start using it as an occassional driver. Winter is coming so even though it's Atlanta, I won't need the A/C running immediately (how much did we decide A/C repair will be? $1800? $3000? $5000?)
If I put $3-4K a year into it over the next few years, won't it turn out to be a decent driver? No, I'm not a wrench. I can and will do small interior stuff, but I'm not getting near the powertrain.
David and Ice: did your red sharks start out perfect? Is it really just obsession that compels you to fix up these cars and sell them at an overall loss?
I understand if it is. That's why I might be close to making a "mistake" on the 87. I want to walk into my garage and see the shark-eyes looking up at me asking "Where we goin', boss?"
I haven't ignored anything, eug. I've read all these posts with great interest and respect. Just because I don't immediately drop the cars that I'm looking at for one that someone offers here doesn't mean I'm ignoring anyone. It means I'm being cautious. Caution is best for someone in my position. You'll notice that I haven't bought the cars I originally posted about.
Then there were a lot of other posts about people regarding how much money they've spent on their cars and then asserting that I'm expecting to spend none. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I thought I could just drop coin on one of these things and then put nothing but gas into it for the next 5 years, I would have bought that full European leather black/tan 5-speed beauty or the Utah concourse recently on eBay.
The whole reason I am even considering an $8K car is because I'm EXPECTING to have to put money into it over the coming years and I figure I'd be better off with a low starting price. I've been reading this board for a month and zero-effort is the last thing I'm expecting. Even if I buy from someone on this list, it would be foolish for me to expect a maintenance-free vehicle.
David, that's a beautiful ride, but a black interior is a step above burgundy for me, unless it's black on the outside, too. Ideally, I'd like a tan interior which both of the ones I'm looking at are. Gray or linen interiors might work for me, too.
Actually, I got the PPI on the gray/tan one today and it's got lot's of leaks and other minor problems in addition to the cosmetic and A/C problems. Here was the one I was considering: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=160288638126 So I'm passing on this one.
I'm still 50/50 on the other one. Like I said, for $3.1K I can start using it as an occassional driver. Winter is coming so even though it's Atlanta, I won't need the A/C running immediately (how much did we decide A/C repair will be? $1800? $3000? $5000?)
If I put $3-4K a year into it over the next few years, won't it turn out to be a decent driver? No, I'm not a wrench. I can and will do small interior stuff, but I'm not getting near the powertrain.
David and Ice: did your red sharks start out perfect? Is it really just obsession that compels you to fix up these cars and sell them at an overall loss?
I understand if it is. That's why I might be close to making a "mistake" on the 87. I want to walk into my garage and see the shark-eyes looking up at me asking "Where we goin', boss?"
I can understand your position a little better now. Maybe you're not interested in David's/Iceman's cars based on color; however, try not to ignore the overwhelming advice that's been echoed over these pages. It's great that you understand that you'll need to infuse cash on these cars. Unfortunately, you're falling into the same trap as many others here, David included. In his case, he clearly stated that he was TRYING to buy a car without fleas, but got sandbagged and sufferred the consequences. In your case, you're willing to accept the fleas and deal with it. That's noble of you, but my concern is that you keep clinging to the notion that, for 3.1k, you'll have a runner to enjoy. What you should be saying is that, in a best case scenario, you might get LUCKY to spend 3.1k to start, plus the potential AC nightmare that awaits.
I got some sage advice when I was headed down the same path -I showed a PPI (predicting 2k+ of work and AC problems) to one of my trusted mechanics with loads of restoration experience. Sounding exactly like you, I tried to convince him what a bargain this car would be, but he laughed at me, saying that I should double the estimated repair cost, and expect to encounter a few unexpected surprises as well. The car also needed some very minor body work, but it turns out it would probably have amounted to at least 3k. Despite his advice, I still tried to talk myself into the car, saying that I'd drop money up front to get it running, then slowly infuse money over time to get it perfect. Then I woke up, quickly changed course and decided not to take any chances.
What you're hearing here is just advice from people who were in your shoes not so long ago. Some have made mistakes, some were lucky to avoid them. And yes, a few probably got lucky when they rolled the dice (others may know of people in this group, but I haven't heard of anyone). I would think that your 89 example would scare you some - looked like a clean runner, but the PPI showed that it probably needed the same amount of mechanical work as the other one.
Take your time and find the right car. Try not to fall in love with one and end up light in the wallet.
Good luck.
10-15-2008, 09:27 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lillington, NC
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But then over the course of 8 months:
TB was 7 yrs old and warning light came on the 1st time I drove it (he said it had just been done)($900 my labor)
-AC did not work at all (he said it was ice cold)($700)
-windshield was cracked (he said all glass was good, windshield has the internal ant and cost $1200)
-car rode like **** (he said it was tight and near perfect and I would 'love driving it') cost me $1800 for new Bilsteins, new drop links for sway bar (2 were bent), ride height adjustment and alignment by known 928 chassis guy (not just anybody can work on the suspension of a 928)
-gauge lights did not work (he said they did)($150 for LED upgrade)
-taillights were all screwed up (all bulb seats were completely rusted and one lens was cracked bad) (spent $350 on 3 tailights to make 2 good ones)
-license plate lights did not work, totally rusted housings ($35 each and required for inspection in NC)
-stereo and LCD clock did not work ($300)
-car had wrong size tires on it ($1200)
-wheels were curb rashed all to hell ($1000)
-cracked pass side driving light ($195 for a new one)
-missing speaker grills
-trans shifted poorly (old fluid and bad 2nd gear spring)
-I got 1 key with the car (they are $30 each for replacements, only guy with a 928 key cutter is in PA)
-all lift shocks for hood and hatch were worn out ($60)
-air compressor and 1/2 of tool set was missing ($250 there)
-belly pans were barely hanging on with rusty and mis-matched hardware
-pass seat power did not work (broken and missing parts)
-rear hatch release did not work ($125 for new part)
This is a partial list, so don't worry about adding it up and challenging my math.
I have spent over $11k including the upgrades I did to make the car right. Upgrades? Yeah, $250 for new Lloyd's floormats, a $400 for a 930S steering wheel, and 928 Motorsports Auto Sport Shifter for $250 are just three examples, that stuff adds up quickly.
As far as obsession goes, I love the car, and enjoy these Rennlist guys/girls and my local PCA group. Now I am neck deep in the hobby and have a very nice '93 GTS 5-spd, which is forcing me to sell my '87 S4. Believe me I tried to keep it, but my wife lives here too.
10-15-2008, 10:30 AM
#49
On my current car I bought it knowing the a/c was non-op, but I also had the PO's receipts for replacing everything (to the tune of almost $3000) so I knew I was starting from a good baseline. One leaky expansion valve and a can of R12 later (I already had two more cans on the shelf), and I've got the best a/c I think I've ever had in any car. And the temp sensor and mixer flaps work perfectly, God help someone who has to replace those.