Brain Death -- 928 Alzheimers
09-25-2008, 08:55 PM
#16
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Yea...I know..it's only money 
....I'll have to weather the sting of my track rims/tires first...but will probably bring it down with me to Sharktoberfest and talk to Rich there... who knows..maybe I'll win the grand prize at the dinner...(last few years it's been a free rebuild by Rich)
....I'll have to weather the sting of my track rims/tires first...but will probably bring it down with me to Sharktoberfest and talk to Rich there... who knows..maybe I'll win the grand prize at the dinner...(last few years it's been a free rebuild by Rich)Thanks Malcolm for that link! Re helping the northern brethren...sure. I wasn't asked but I'm available between intake removal and installation
09-25-2008, 09:52 PM
#17
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For those too lazy to follow the links, Our Favorite Local 928 Parts Purveyor, 928 International, represents JDS Porsche and has John's rebuilt/upgraded LH brains on the shelf. Both John and 928 International are site sponsors. Joh also has other regional reps in the US, including Louis Ott in the PacNW region (relatively) near Tom. You do have choices when you shop! Meanwhile, Rich Andrade is a long-time friend and 928 buddy, who did the fix on my spare brain that's now in the car.
09-25-2008, 10:29 PM
#18
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Sorry Bob. Hope I didn't post a link in error. I just thought that others may want to know where you found your success...(and hope I found the right site).
09-26-2008, 01:05 AM
#19
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No worries for me. I'm interested in making sure folks don't chase a bunch of other possibilities when a simple btrain test might help diagnose a simple but $ problem. Time is the same as $$$ around here most of the time. But time is the non-renewable resource.
09-26-2008, 01:23 AM
#20
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Bill has my get-one-rebuild-for-free ticket from the last Sharktoberfest. We're sort of saving for those in need - and unless Bill already made plans for it I am pretty sure you're welcome to it 
09-26-2008, 02:27 AM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Bob,
When you said you were getting bad mileage prior to the brain surgery, what was your average mileage?
Whats your current mileage?
I am thinking this too could be a cause for concern. I think i am going to just completely go through this car and just keep it. Its looking a hell of allot better now that i got rid of the chrome wheels that i so hated!
Odd though, how does a computer brain get progressively worse. I would think it just works or doesnt work. How can it deteriorate? i had no idea these things could do that.
When you said you were getting bad mileage prior to the brain surgery, what was your average mileage?
Whats your current mileage?
I am thinking this too could be a cause for concern. I think i am going to just completely go through this car and just keep it. Its looking a hell of allot better now that i got rid of the chrome wheels that i so hated!
Odd though, how does a computer brain get progressively worse. I would think it just works or doesnt work. How can it deteriorate? i had no idea these things could do that.
09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
#22
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Ryan-
Mileage: 86k on the car.
or:
The car was getting 15.5 - 18 earlier this year, depending on use pattern. This is calculated, not the dash computer reading. The hard starting showed up maybe half way through the last tank, which returned 12.7 MPG average over the whole tank. The last few trips on that tank included some freeway, so it's likely that the actual mileage for the last half of the tank was pulling the numbers lower than the 12.7 might indicate. I used a little more than the third indicated quarter of a tank to go 60 miles, so 10 MPG might not be too far off. You've ridden with me so you know that it wasn't the driving.
LH failure seems to show up differently for different people. Several locals have had cars that would barely start, for instance, and spewed a lot of misfire smoke when they did start. Over the course of 100 miles of driving, mine would start OK most of the time. Several times though it would not start right away, and it needed a full pedal to clear out and come to life. A few minutes later it seemed OK though. Like sticking-open injector or a leaky FPR/damper. That's what spurred the use of the external gauge to check pressure and leakdown. The poor mileage pushed me to swap in the spare module, especially after a rather tough episode getting it started last Saturday over in Pasadena.
The deterioration of the smart part of the brain is supposedly caused by poor sealing of a critical custom circuit card in the brain. The rebuild from Rich has a new design piece installed that's obviously sealed much more thoroughly. Plus it works. The spare in the car now is from an '87, but has upgraded smarts in it to support the diagnostics native to my '89. The reason for fixing the original brain is to have the case and number stickers correct, else the one that's in there now works just fine.
When I contact Rich and get the original fixed and back in the car, the '87 rebuilt will be available for testing again. If you suspect that a partially-failed brain is a cause of your smog failure, for instance, you'll know quickly with the test brain plugged in. Even though the car seemed to idle OK before the starting problem showed up, it had the occassional burble/miss. New one has none of that, and idle is perfectly smooth again. Maybe yours needs the same?
Mileage: 86k on the car.
or:
The car was getting 15.5 - 18 earlier this year, depending on use pattern. This is calculated, not the dash computer reading. The hard starting showed up maybe half way through the last tank, which returned 12.7 MPG average over the whole tank. The last few trips on that tank included some freeway, so it's likely that the actual mileage for the last half of the tank was pulling the numbers lower than the 12.7 might indicate. I used a little more than the third indicated quarter of a tank to go 60 miles, so 10 MPG might not be too far off. You've ridden with me so you know that it wasn't the driving.
LH failure seems to show up differently for different people. Several locals have had cars that would barely start, for instance, and spewed a lot of misfire smoke when they did start. Over the course of 100 miles of driving, mine would start OK most of the time. Several times though it would not start right away, and it needed a full pedal to clear out and come to life. A few minutes later it seemed OK though. Like sticking-open injector or a leaky FPR/damper. That's what spurred the use of the external gauge to check pressure and leakdown. The poor mileage pushed me to swap in the spare module, especially after a rather tough episode getting it started last Saturday over in Pasadena.
The deterioration of the smart part of the brain is supposedly caused by poor sealing of a critical custom circuit card in the brain. The rebuild from Rich has a new design piece installed that's obviously sealed much more thoroughly. Plus it works. The spare in the car now is from an '87, but has upgraded smarts in it to support the diagnostics native to my '89. The reason for fixing the original brain is to have the case and number stickers correct, else the one that's in there now works just fine.
When I contact Rich and get the original fixed and back in the car, the '87 rebuilt will be available for testing again. If you suspect that a partially-failed brain is a cause of your smog failure, for instance, you'll know quickly with the test brain plugged in. Even though the car seemed to idle OK before the starting problem showed up, it had the occassional burble/miss. New one has none of that, and idle is perfectly smooth again. Maybe yours needs the same?
09-26-2008, 10:15 AM
#23
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Let me see what I can work out with Rich before I use that option. I do appreciate the offer.
09-26-2008, 02:03 PM
#25
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Ryan-
Mileage: 86k on the car.
or:
The car was getting 15.5 - 18 earlier this year, depending on use pattern. This is calculated, not the dash computer reading. The hard starting showed up maybe half way through the last tank, which returned 12.7 MPG average over the whole tank. The last few trips on that tank included some freeway, so it's likely that the actual mileage for the last half of the tank was pulling the numbers lower than the 12.7 might indicate. I used a little more than the third indicated quarter of a tank to go 60 miles, so 10 MPG might not be too far off. You've ridden with me so you know that it wasn't the driving.
LH failure seems to show up differently for different people. Several locals have had cars that would barely start, for instance, and spewed a lot of misfire smoke when they did start. Over the course of 100 miles of driving, mine would start OK most of the time. Several times though it would not start right away, and it needed a full pedal to clear out and come to life. A few minutes later it seemed OK though. Like sticking-open injector or a leaky FPR/damper. That's what spurred the use of the external gauge to check pressure and leakdown. The poor mileage pushed me to swap in the spare module, especially after a rather tough episode getting it started last Saturday over in Pasadena.
The deterioration of the smart part of the brain is supposedly caused by poor sealing of a critical custom circuit card in the brain. The rebuild from Rich has a new design piece installed that's obviously sealed much more thoroughly. Plus it works. The spare in the car now is from an '87, but has upgraded smarts in it to support the diagnostics native to my '89. The reason for fixing the original brain is to have the case and number stickers correct, else the one that's in there now works just fine.
When I contact Rich and get the original fixed and back in the car, the '87 rebuilt will be available for testing again. If you suspect that a partially-failed brain is a cause of your smog failure, for instance, you'll know quickly with the test brain plugged in. Even though the car seemed to idle OK before the starting problem showed up, it had the occassional burble/miss. New one has none of that, and idle is perfectly smooth again. Maybe yours needs the same?
Mileage: 86k on the car.
or:
The car was getting 15.5 - 18 earlier this year, depending on use pattern. This is calculated, not the dash computer reading. The hard starting showed up maybe half way through the last tank, which returned 12.7 MPG average over the whole tank. The last few trips on that tank included some freeway, so it's likely that the actual mileage for the last half of the tank was pulling the numbers lower than the 12.7 might indicate. I used a little more than the third indicated quarter of a tank to go 60 miles, so 10 MPG might not be too far off. You've ridden with me so you know that it wasn't the driving.
LH failure seems to show up differently for different people. Several locals have had cars that would barely start, for instance, and spewed a lot of misfire smoke when they did start. Over the course of 100 miles of driving, mine would start OK most of the time. Several times though it would not start right away, and it needed a full pedal to clear out and come to life. A few minutes later it seemed OK though. Like sticking-open injector or a leaky FPR/damper. That's what spurred the use of the external gauge to check pressure and leakdown. The poor mileage pushed me to swap in the spare module, especially after a rather tough episode getting it started last Saturday over in Pasadena.
The deterioration of the smart part of the brain is supposedly caused by poor sealing of a critical custom circuit card in the brain. The rebuild from Rich has a new design piece installed that's obviously sealed much more thoroughly. Plus it works. The spare in the car now is from an '87, but has upgraded smarts in it to support the diagnostics native to my '89. The reason for fixing the original brain is to have the case and number stickers correct, else the one that's in there now works just fine.
When I contact Rich and get the original fixed and back in the car, the '87 rebuilt will be available for testing again. If you suspect that a partially-failed brain is a cause of your smog failure, for instance, you'll know quickly with the test brain plugged in. Even though the car seemed to idle OK before the starting problem showed up, it had the occassional burble/miss. New one has none of that, and idle is perfectly smooth again. Maybe yours needs the same?
I replaced the cats yesterday and havent had it tested again yet, but i will do that shortly this morning. What i did find was that the passenger side cat did have a hole in it from the back side which i could see. I imagine that the damage is more extesive in the front half of the cat but i cant see that. The drivers side seemed ok from the rear, but again, i cant see the front of the car matrix.
I also ordered some new injectors, i was also going to have the MAF sent out for repair when i am doing the whole cam cover and intake refresh. I think i will just keep the car, i have a nice list to do and i am actually debatng on wether i should just pull hte motor to do the lower sealing (pangasket and motor mounts) in addition to the cam covers and intake and i may if i pull the engine just refresh the rollers and water pump on the timing belt side. If i do the top (intake) the bottom (pan gasket) and the front (timing belt) i think it makes sense to simply pull the motor, but they i would be out of the car for awhile, when i guess i could do all 3 individually at different times and just be out 1-2 days at a time max.
Sorry, back to the topic at hand
09-26-2008, 02:18 PM
#26
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Ryan--
I'll very likely have a lift and time to do some of those tasks with after the first of the year. If you can wait that long, it will make the motor mounts and pan gasket project so much easier. Two of us can easily do that in a day.
I also need to do the intake and cam covers project, and plan to grab a quart of the original Zermatt Silver when I'm in New Mexico next. They still sell the Real Paint there, vs the less-than-wonderful water-based stuff on the shelves here in SoCal. I also have the rear wheel bearings, shocks, and brakes on my "why dr bob needs a lift" list. K says to just buy a new car instead though.
We should talk more about this stuff.
I'll very likely have a lift and time to do some of those tasks with after the first of the year. If you can wait that long, it will make the motor mounts and pan gasket project so much easier. Two of us can easily do that in a day.
I also need to do the intake and cam covers project, and plan to grab a quart of the original Zermatt Silver when I'm in New Mexico next. They still sell the Real Paint there, vs the less-than-wonderful water-based stuff on the shelves here in SoCal. I also have the rear wheel bearings, shocks, and brakes on my "why dr bob needs a lift" list. K says to just buy a new car instead though.
We should talk more about this stuff.
09-26-2008, 02:31 PM
#27
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Been away for a few days R&R and found this thread ........... 928Intl do sell my rebuilt MAFs, but never have sold my rebuilt LH ECUs.
Louie Ott supplies all my products, including rebuilt LH..... many thanks to all list members who have supported my services :-)
Louie Ott supplies all my products, including rebuilt LH..... many thanks to all list members who have supported my services :-)
09-26-2008, 02:45 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
YES! Of course, thanks so much for your time and dedication, we are a much stronger community with you in it. I cant imagine having to pay god knows what for a 20 year old LH from Porsche.
09-26-2008, 02:47 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
Ryan--
I'll very likely have a lift and time to do some of those tasks with after the first of the year. If you can wait that long, it will make the motor mounts and pan gasket project so much easier. Two of us can easily do that in a day.
I also need to do the intake and cam covers project, and plan to grab a quart of the original Zermatt Silver when I'm in New Mexico next. They still sell the Real Paint there, vs the less-than-wonderful water-based stuff on the shelves here in SoCal. I also have the rear wheel bearings, shocks, and brakes on my "why dr bob needs a lift" list. K says to just buy a new car instead though.
We should talk more about this stuff.
I'll very likely have a lift and time to do some of those tasks with after the first of the year. If you can wait that long, it will make the motor mounts and pan gasket project so much easier. Two of us can easily do that in a day.
I also need to do the intake and cam covers project, and plan to grab a quart of the original Zermatt Silver when I'm in New Mexico next. They still sell the Real Paint there, vs the less-than-wonderful water-based stuff on the shelves here in SoCal. I also have the rear wheel bearings, shocks, and brakes on my "why dr bob needs a lift" list. K says to just buy a new car instead though.
We should talk more about this stuff.
Yes i would love to do what i can to help. I guess i am hesitant doing the motor mounts and pan gasket from below. I just never did it, had the engine out twice from the top but if your confident tackling that from below with the cross brace is the way to go, then i have complete faith in it.
We should definately talk, and yeah i probably could wait till after the new year for motor mounts and pan gasket stuff. Maybe i will just do the top side stuff if i have an itch for wrenching.
now.....off to get smog test #3
09-26-2008, 02:47 PM
#30
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Hello all,
I'll just add to Dr. Bob's observations, a failing LH can be very difficult to diagnose. Failures can be very subtle issue and slowly get worse or they can be running fine - fail the next day. This is what makes it so difficult, especially for mechanics who don't have much 928 experience, to trouble shoot. I've seen a lot more failed LHs coming in the past quarter ... are they reaching the end of their natural life?
There is one symptom that 100% points to a failing LH - the clicking of the fuel injectors when the ignition switch is turned on (but the engine is not cranked or running). It is a faint sound, you'll need the radio turned off.
I provide a lot of advise and have a detailed white paper on the 928 fuel in injection system. Many no-start problems are due to failed relays (yes as Jim says ... relay, relay relay) .... and I do a lot of testing of LHs for customers - I'd say 80% that come in are bad and the other 20% are OK and this testing allows the customer to focus on the real source of the problem.
I'll just add to Dr. Bob's observations, a failing LH can be very difficult to diagnose. Failures can be very subtle issue and slowly get worse or they can be running fine - fail the next day. This is what makes it so difficult, especially for mechanics who don't have much 928 experience, to trouble shoot. I've seen a lot more failed LHs coming in the past quarter ... are they reaching the end of their natural life?
There is one symptom that 100% points to a failing LH - the clicking of the fuel injectors when the ignition switch is turned on (but the engine is not cranked or running). It is a faint sound, you'll need the radio turned off.
I provide a lot of advise and have a detailed white paper on the 928 fuel in injection system. Many no-start problems are due to failed relays (yes as Jim says ... relay, relay relay) .... and I do a lot of testing of LHs for customers - I'd say 80% that come in are bad and the other 20% are OK and this testing allows the customer to focus on the real source of the problem.