Mechanic told me I shouldn't make changes
07-28-2008, 08:26 PM
#46
Fleet of Foot
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You guys need to move to michigan... unemployment may be at 8.5% but........ when I drove my 74 firebird(race car) around with just headers 3" exhaust removed a cop just game me a slap on the wrist. (just got done putting the turbo 400 back in from rebuild) I doubt 25% of cars/trucks in MI are 100% stock. I've driven my race cars around with the hoods removed and the engines sticking up 1/2 way to the top of the windshield...... In MI if its too loud your too old!
07-28-2008, 08:49 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
07-28-2008, 09:05 PM
#48
Banned
The individual is still breaking the law, just less of a chance he will get caught if the state which he resides in doesn't do emissions. Uncle sam says creating pollution is illegal, don't let him find you.
07-28-2008, 09:18 PM
#49
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would any shop risk it? If you want to go without the cat do it yourself.
Basically it appears to be a risk/reward decision. Would the power lost to a high flow cat be worth the potential penalty to you?
I would be surprised if there were any states that hadn't drafted legislation prohibiting "tampering with" emission control equipment on any vehicle. I doubt that the states lacked foresight to enable enforcement of this upon individuals.
My personal experience with LEO regarding the 928 is that they find some of the most obscure reasons to pull me over. I'm with Drbob on not needing additional attention obtained because the car just sounds too loud.
I wont enter the fray over the environment, few people want to be proactive. When the air quality in your area is like that in Beijing it will be too late to do anything about it. It is very hard to remediate such a large complex system in a short period of time.
If the car were to pass emissions without the cat then you might have a valid argument.
My choice will be the Y, high flow cat, and new cat back system when the time comes. The first 100 times I get away without the cat will not be worth the once that I don't.
07-28-2008, 09:30 PM
#50
I drive a cat-less diesel all day, its the work truck, and that damn thing puts out more smoke than I do in a month, and I drive my 928 to work daily.
The only reasons I went with the High Flow cats on my X-pipe, were due to sound. And with the smaller resonators, I can't imagine it being louder. I pulled off the air pump. (wtf is that for anyway....let's inject clean air into our exhaust at a high rate and call the expulsions cleaner exhaust...idiots, sure it is cleaner coming out the *** of the car, but it is still the same amount of crap)
I go to the same inspection station each time and I really look forward to this next trip. Wifes '90 is stock, mine is not but they look exactly the same from the outside. Hell, the guys up there were freaking when I brought mine up a week after Ang had hers up there. They thought it was the same car.
These guys couldn't even figure out that it had 2 banks of spark plugs and it was messing up the numbers on the computer. They never looked at the safety features except the wipers and the horn. If it doesn't pass the emission numbers, I put my old stuff back on and take it up, then replace the X/cats that same day.
The only reasons I went with the High Flow cats on my X-pipe, were due to sound. And with the smaller resonators, I can't imagine it being louder. I pulled off the air pump. (wtf is that for anyway....let's inject clean air into our exhaust at a high rate and call the expulsions cleaner exhaust...idiots, sure it is cleaner coming out the *** of the car, but it is still the same amount of crap)
I go to the same inspection station each time and I really look forward to this next trip. Wifes '90 is stock, mine is not but they look exactly the same from the outside. Hell, the guys up there were freaking when I brought mine up a week after Ang had hers up there. They thought it was the same car.
These guys couldn't even figure out that it had 2 banks of spark plugs and it was messing up the numbers on the computer. They never looked at the safety features except the wipers and the horn. If it doesn't pass the emission numbers, I put my old stuff back on and take it up, then replace the X/cats that same day.
07-28-2008, 10:11 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Do I need to rebuild my noisy smog pump and re-install in order to be able to sell it in the future?
How are you guys selling modified cars on ebay and other public forums? Are you risking fines, impoundment, etc?
How are you guys selling modified cars on ebay and other public forums? Are you risking fines, impoundment, etc?
07-28-2008, 11:08 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Hi,
I was talking to a mechanic I have done lots of business with in the past about my 928 (he has not worked on the 928, but I wanted him to do a few things for me). I told him that I was thinking of putting a Y pipe on it, and removing the cat (it is an 82, and in my state nothing older than 83 needs to pass emissions). He told me he thought it was a bad idea because the car was made a certain way, that engineers at Porsche had sat down and planned how to get the most power out of everything, and changing anything would throw all of that engineering off. Granted, he is not specifically a Porsche mechanic, but I trust this guy a lot. What he is saying makes sense, but I really don't know. I read about you guys tweaking and changing everything. What do yo guys think? I want more power!!!!
If I put a Y pipe specifically made for my car on, and remove the cat, am I going to get warning lights coming on and things like that? Anybody done this to an 82? I've been told it is the quickest/cheapest way to get a good performance boost, and I can understand why (less restriction = more power). I just don't want to mess her up!!! If the engine is expecting a certain amount of back pressure, and it is not there, then what happens?
Thanks,
Joe
I was talking to a mechanic I have done lots of business with in the past about my 928 (he has not worked on the 928, but I wanted him to do a few things for me). I told him that I was thinking of putting a Y pipe on it, and removing the cat (it is an 82, and in my state nothing older than 83 needs to pass emissions). He told me he thought it was a bad idea because the car was made a certain way, that engineers at Porsche had sat down and planned how to get the most power out of everything, and changing anything would throw all of that engineering off. Granted, he is not specifically a Porsche mechanic, but I trust this guy a lot. What he is saying makes sense, but I really don't know. I read about you guys tweaking and changing everything. What do yo guys think? I want more power!!!!
If I put a Y pipe specifically made for my car on, and remove the cat, am I going to get warning lights coming on and things like that? Anybody done this to an 82? I've been told it is the quickest/cheapest way to get a good performance boost, and I can understand why (less restriction = more power). I just don't want to mess her up!!! If the engine is expecting a certain amount of back pressure, and it is not there, then what happens?
Thanks,
Joe
07-28-2008, 11:58 PM
#54
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Halifax, MA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, I live in MA.
I think to be safe, I will go with the Y pipe and the less restrictive cat instead of no cat. I'll just do it myself and keep the original parts in case it becomes an issue. Eventually I will add the cat-back replacement as well.
Although I am an environmentally conscience person, I do not think that running my car for a few hours a month during only the summer months is going to make any difference at all to the overall condition of the environment or the planet. I will be planting more trees in my yard, and I will buy a few more solar panels for my existing system to make up for it (LOL). Plus, I live in a town with a whole bunch of farms with cows and horses. Those babies emit way more pollutants from their exhaust then I ever will.
I wonder if all those rides I have taken so far this summer in my wife's 71 VW bug with absolutely no smog equipment whatsoever is bad? EPA???
This forum really is so great. What a place to come for information!
BTW, the mechanic certainly is not a moron!! He's a great guy, and very knowledgeable. Definitely not a parts changer!
Where can you get a larger throttle body and intake?
I think to be safe, I will go with the Y pipe and the less restrictive cat instead of no cat. I'll just do it myself and keep the original parts in case it becomes an issue. Eventually I will add the cat-back replacement as well.
Although I am an environmentally conscience person, I do not think that running my car for a few hours a month during only the summer months is going to make any difference at all to the overall condition of the environment or the planet. I will be planting more trees in my yard, and I will buy a few more solar panels for my existing system to make up for it (LOL). Plus, I live in a town with a whole bunch of farms with cows and horses. Those babies emit way more pollutants from their exhaust then I ever will.
I wonder if all those rides I have taken so far this summer in my wife's 71 VW bug with absolutely no smog equipment whatsoever is bad? EPA???
This forum really is so great. What a place to come for information!
BTW, the mechanic certainly is not a moron!! He's a great guy, and very knowledgeable. Definitely not a parts changer!
Where can you get a larger throttle body and intake?
07-29-2008, 12:11 AM
#55
I have never ever met or heard of anyone here in Fla being pulled over or ticketed for emissions. Heck, if they did, we'd have a overflow surplus of money in the municipal & state coffers with all of the junkers on the roads down here.
Heck, about 3 months ago, while in traffic, I thought a car must be on fire there was so much smoke. But nooooo, it was just one junker, blowing out so much smoke that it obscured the cars around it. I couldn't see the cars on the other side of this guy the smoke was so thick as he idled at a light. Then I saw a cop going our same direction, one lane over from the guy & I thought hey, how about a ticket for a safety violation if nothing else?? But nope, the cop acted like he never saw him.(Probably didn't see him due to all the smoke!)
I can promise you that the few times a month I drive my shark, the enjoyment of the sound & additional bwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh will far outweight any guilt that I'd feel for the little bit of additional pollution that its putting out. Besides, I love planting trees & we live in front of about 80+ acres of nature preserve!
Heck, about 3 months ago, while in traffic, I thought a car must be on fire there was so much smoke. But nooooo, it was just one junker, blowing out so much smoke that it obscured the cars around it. I couldn't see the cars on the other side of this guy the smoke was so thick as he idled at a light. Then I saw a cop going our same direction, one lane over from the guy & I thought hey, how about a ticket for a safety violation if nothing else?? But nope, the cop acted like he never saw him.(Probably didn't see him due to all the smoke!)
I can promise you that the few times a month I drive my shark, the enjoyment of the sound & additional bwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh will far outweight any guilt that I'd feel for the little bit of additional pollution that its putting out. Besides, I love planting trees & we live in front of about 80+ acres of nature preserve!
07-29-2008, 12:12 AM
#56
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Kyle's Mom is a Big Fat Bitch
07-29-2008, 09:38 AM
#58
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
07-29-2008, 11:39 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
The lag time on turning around the CO2 problem is 30 years.
07-29-2008, 11:59 AM
#60
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
The reason for the air pump ....lifted from Wiki...."Many three-way catalytic converters utilize an air injection tube between the first (NOx reduction) and second (HC and CO oxidation) biscuits of the converter. This tube is fed by either an air pump or by an aspirator. The injected air provides oxygen for the catalyst's oxidizing reaction. These systems also sometimes include an upstream air injector to admit oxygen to the exhaust system before it reaches the catalytic converter. This precleans the extra-rich exhaust from a cold engine, and helps bring the catalytic converter quickly up to operating temperature.
Most newer systems do not employ air injection. Instead, they provide a constantly varying mixture that quickly and continually cycles between lean and rich to keep the first catalyst (NOx reduction) from becoming oxygen loaded, and to keep the second catalyst (CO oxidization) sufficiently oxygen-saturated. They also utilize several oxygen sensors to monitor the exhaust, at least one before the catalytic converter for each bank of cylinders, and one after the converter. Some systems contain the reduction and oxidation functions separately rather than in a common housing. ....
Which means the simple single cats....really do not WORK all that well on a 928 and replacing a threeway cat with a high flow is .....ILLEGAL for individuals and shops. As mentioned the EPA typically only goes after a business and then only if they are really publicly flaunting the laws.... Jessie James got nailed for about $500,000 by the state of California for selling none compliant bikes...
Most newer systems do not employ air injection. Instead, they provide a constantly varying mixture that quickly and continually cycles between lean and rich to keep the first catalyst (NOx reduction) from becoming oxygen loaded, and to keep the second catalyst (CO oxidization) sufficiently oxygen-saturated. They also utilize several oxygen sensors to monitor the exhaust, at least one before the catalytic converter for each bank of cylinders, and one after the converter. Some systems contain the reduction and oxidation functions separately rather than in a common housing. ....
Which means the simple single cats....really do not WORK all that well on a 928 and replacing a threeway cat with a high flow is .....ILLEGAL for individuals and shops. As mentioned the EPA typically only goes after a business and then only if they are really publicly flaunting the laws.... Jessie James got nailed for about $500,000 by the state of California for selling none compliant bikes...