K&N Filters The Straight Scoop
10-26-2001, 02:24 PM
#31
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I saw that electric supercharger & had the same thought----not sure how it would package.
The airbox & tubes is really a point of discontent among every shark owner I've talked to. Someone told me that someone put a vacuum gauge in a 928 airbox & it indicated .5 bar negative under power. I really think most of the 'findings' are from the poor fit that inevitably occurs on the things, rather than the K&N. I have also seen a cone filter conversion, but it wasn't very nice.
I've always wondered why Porsche let such a poor-appearing design live for so long, when the tooling costs to redesign would have been so modest for the power/performance gain.
The airbox & tubes is really a point of discontent among every shark owner I've talked to. Someone told me that someone put a vacuum gauge in a 928 airbox & it indicated .5 bar negative under power. I really think most of the 'findings' are from the poor fit that inevitably occurs on the things, rather than the K&N. I have also seen a cone filter conversion, but it wasn't very nice.
I've always wondered why Porsche let such a poor-appearing design live for so long, when the tooling costs to redesign would have been so modest for the power/performance gain.
10-30-2001, 04:52 PM
#32
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I recently pulled my K&N to remove the airbox. Unbelievable, 2 cigarette butts leaves and about a pound of crap. Apparently the shark is a bottom feeder. However, underneath the filter, pristene. I love my K&N.
10-31-2001, 10:23 AM
#34
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Beats the hell out of me Mike. But it looked like the contents of a street sweeper, leaves, assorted crap and no kidding, 2 cigarette butts. This accumulation is from about 3 months (2500-3000 mi.) of driving. One would think that a car with the class of a 928 would consume a better grade of tobacco. Hopefully at next inspection any tobacco products will be Opus X or Davidoff cigar butts.
10-31-2001, 12:56 PM
#37
Former Sponsor
Originally posted by Carlos:
<STRONG>See my above post with the reply from K&N. I think it holds water.</STRONG>
<STRONG>See my above post with the reply from K&N. I think it holds water.</STRONG>
11-01-2001, 12:29 AM
#38
Slevy951,
More info is a good thing, much appreciated!
We had a similar "independent" test on the net provided to us by K&N. Same format same particulate, different percentiles. Ed Ruiz was concerned about the vested interest's and I agree. However, the flip side to that is Porsche's tests on the 'factory' filter - do you really think Porsche, Audi, BMW...
actually manufacture their own filter?- was just as biased the other way. Now, Carlos and I started out on this particular topic awhile back looking at performance AND filtration effectiveness. Additional post's have pushed this to another level. The friggen Porsche airbox!!! Yeah, if I use every dab of the K&N lip sealant I have no grit passing into the box- my straps are in good condition(resilient/new looking). If you read other posts including the Carlos 'butt post' you will see a common thread. On average, folks of all walks of life are getting strange things laying on the Maf screen or in the box proper. Most everyone agrees that some of this could be caused by us when we pull the filter but not all for Christ's sake! And if you really study how YOU do the inspection over time some but not all of this crud disappears.
Additionally, if the large stuff is getting to the screen or in the box below the filter then the imagination runs rampant trying to estimate how much of the fine dust got by and into our marvelous engines. In effect if bug parts, grit and butts managed to get that far we might as well be using re - enforced coffee filters, or, old T-shirts because no matter how efficient the filter is or isn't becomes academic if **** is getting around it. That's our point, NOW, as opposed to when we were wishing/believing we were getting a performance gain. Plainly, unless you become a bonafide stickler like I've become your (928 in our case)car is gobbling abrasives well above what we owners have been led to believe and the culprit appears to be the airbox. When time permits a hi-flow snorkle will be in the offing.
Again, post is appreciated , keep it up.
Keep em' rolling
John S. 82' 928 Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
More info is a good thing, much appreciated!
We had a similar "independent" test on the net provided to us by K&N. Same format same particulate, different percentiles. Ed Ruiz was concerned about the vested interest's and I agree. However, the flip side to that is Porsche's tests on the 'factory' filter - do you really think Porsche, Audi, BMW...
actually manufacture their own filter?- was just as biased the other way. Now, Carlos and I started out on this particular topic awhile back looking at performance AND filtration effectiveness. Additional post's have pushed this to another level. The friggen Porsche airbox!!! Yeah, if I use every dab of the K&N lip sealant I have no grit passing into the box- my straps are in good condition(resilient/new looking). If you read other posts including the Carlos 'butt post' you will see a common thread. On average, folks of all walks of life are getting strange things laying on the Maf screen or in the box proper. Most everyone agrees that some of this could be caused by us when we pull the filter but not all for Christ's sake! And if you really study how YOU do the inspection over time some but not all of this crud disappears.
Additionally, if the large stuff is getting to the screen or in the box below the filter then the imagination runs rampant trying to estimate how much of the fine dust got by and into our marvelous engines. In effect if bug parts, grit and butts managed to get that far we might as well be using re - enforced coffee filters, or, old T-shirts because no matter how efficient the filter is or isn't becomes academic if **** is getting around it. That's our point, NOW, as opposed to when we were wishing/believing we were getting a performance gain. Plainly, unless you become a bonafide stickler like I've become your (928 in our case)car is gobbling abrasives well above what we owners have been led to believe and the culprit appears to be the airbox. When time permits a hi-flow snorkle will be in the offing.
Again, post is appreciated , keep it up.
Keep em' rolling
John S. 82' 928 Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
11-01-2001, 10:05 AM
#39
Former Sponsor
Hey John,
I got into this thread kinda late which is why my post seemed off topic now. I don't understand, either, how "big" pieces of debris is getting by your filters. It just doesn't make any sense. Since it seems to be happening to more than a handful of you guys, I doubt that the stuff is sneaking in when you replace/check the filters. Unfortunately, I don't have any other theories to put forth. Good luck with this problem. Seems with these cars, there's always something strange going on!
Scott
'86 951
I got into this thread kinda late which is why my post seemed off topic now. I don't understand, either, how "big" pieces of debris is getting by your filters. It just doesn't make any sense. Since it seems to be happening to more than a handful of you guys, I doubt that the stuff is sneaking in when you replace/check the filters. Unfortunately, I don't have any other theories to put forth. Good luck with this problem. Seems with these cars, there's always something strange going on!
Scott
'86 951
11-02-2001, 11:02 AM
#40
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From the 928 mailing list. FYI, Mr. Ott knows a bit about 928s, having developed a couple of parts that 928 Specialists now carry:
Subject: Re: K&N filter killing my MAF ?
From: LouisOtt@cs.com
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:31:57 EST
X-Message-Number: 45
Raymond,
I was told by a Porsche mechanic that it was not uncommon for the oil vapors
from the K&N to coat the MAF sensor wires, collect crud during use, and not
completely burn off during the shutdown burn off sequence. After a while the
MAF would not read the air flow correctly or fail.
That, along with the fact that the K&N passes fine dirt which the stock
filter doesn't, and that I have never seen a dyno run on my car where the K&N
made more tq or hp than a clean stock filter keeps my 2 near new K&N filters
safely in their plastic bag and away from my air filter box.
Louis Ott
'90GT
Subject: Re: K&N filter killing my MAF ?
From: LouisOtt@cs.com
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:31:57 EST
X-Message-Number: 45
Raymond,
I was told by a Porsche mechanic that it was not uncommon for the oil vapors
from the K&N to coat the MAF sensor wires, collect crud during use, and not
completely burn off during the shutdown burn off sequence. After a while the
MAF would not read the air flow correctly or fail.
That, along with the fact that the K&N passes fine dirt which the stock
filter doesn't, and that I have never seen a dyno run on my car where the K&N
made more tq or hp than a clean stock filter keeps my 2 near new K&N filters
safely in their plastic bag and away from my air filter box.
Louis Ott
'90GT
11-02-2001, 08:53 PM
#41
Roy,
We have been there, guy. The issue is not with the K&N or recommended Porsche air filter(s).
The problem is with debris, oil mist residue,dust and grit. We have read the 'INDEPENDENT'filter tests from several quarters and have a small but-slowly- growing number of posts both pro and con. And we only weigh second hand opinions slightly less for being second hand. Every post concerning the intake of grit/crap into these fantastic motors should and hopefully will be considered by anyone who looks at this or other related posts. The focus of the post is no longer on the effectivness of the K&N or Porsche filter-though still a concern- but on the HOW/WHY this stuff is getting around the filter element. I and others believe that it is the filter box.
That's the story as it stands now, O.K.?
I check the filter and box at every 2500-2800 mile oil change. I am running the K&N now and will buy a stock filter soon and do as thorough an inspection for dirt/debris/oil on it as I am doing on the K&N now. With the intent of eliminating or sealing the areas of the air box responsible for the crap ending up on the wrong side of the filter.
Later
Keep em' rolling
John S. 82'Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
We have been there, guy. The issue is not with the K&N or recommended Porsche air filter(s).
The problem is with debris, oil mist residue,dust and grit. We have read the 'INDEPENDENT'filter tests from several quarters and have a small but-slowly- growing number of posts both pro and con. And we only weigh second hand opinions slightly less for being second hand. Every post concerning the intake of grit/crap into these fantastic motors should and hopefully will be considered by anyone who looks at this or other related posts. The focus of the post is no longer on the effectivness of the K&N or Porsche filter-though still a concern- but on the HOW/WHY this stuff is getting around the filter element. I and others believe that it is the filter box.
That's the story as it stands now, O.K.?
I check the filter and box at every 2500-2800 mile oil change. I am running the K&N now and will buy a stock filter soon and do as thorough an inspection for dirt/debris/oil on it as I am doing on the K&N now. With the intent of eliminating or sealing the areas of the air box responsible for the crap ending up on the wrong side of the filter.
Later
Keep em' rolling
John S. 82'Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
11-03-2001, 04:24 PM
#43
LB,
Do you often brush your teeth stale beer?
Get a clue guy!
The debris and dirt are getting around the Porsche filter as well. I know because that's what was in my airbox before the K&N.
Care to guess what one of the reasons I switched to the K&N was? Ed Riuz and others suggest new/modified cover retaining straps but at over $20.00 apiece -4 of em'- thats a little rich, don't you think? Of course, if that 'IS THE PROBLEM' I'd fork over the cash in a heartbeat. We all have sHARKs, right?
Let's fix 'THE PROBLEM FIRST' then cap on the vendors wether K&N, or, Porsche after the problem is isolated and we can, fairly, dollop out the blame.
John S. 82'Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
Do you often brush your teeth stale beer?
Get a clue guy!
The debris and dirt are getting around the Porsche filter as well. I know because that's what was in my airbox before the K&N.
Care to guess what one of the reasons I switched to the K&N was? Ed Riuz and others suggest new/modified cover retaining straps but at over $20.00 apiece -4 of em'- thats a little rich, don't you think? Of course, if that 'IS THE PROBLEM' I'd fork over the cash in a heartbeat. We all have sHARKs, right?
Let's fix 'THE PROBLEM FIRST' then cap on the vendors wether K&N, or, Porsche after the problem is isolated and we can, fairly, dollop out the blame.
John S. 82'Weissach, Auto., 'Pattycakes'
11-06-2001, 02:42 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Let me clarify some thing others have said I said. When I use the OEM filter nothing gets deposited on the MAF screen. When I use the K&N filter, I see small bug parts on top of the MAF screen.
My filter box works just fine. My straps are a bit waek, but I have installed insulation material to make the straps stretch a bit more and thus provide a tighter hold.
BTW, this isn't a "one time" occurance, as it happens every time I use the K&N filter. That is why I only use it during track and autocross events, and even then I don't always use it if the venue is rather dusty. YMMV.
The jury is still out as to whether there is any performance gain when using a K&N filter. Lastly, my mechanic (who sells them) does not recommend them. Go figure?
My filter box works just fine. My straps are a bit waek, but I have installed insulation material to make the straps stretch a bit more and thus provide a tighter hold.
BTW, this isn't a "one time" occurance, as it happens every time I use the K&N filter. That is why I only use it during track and autocross events, and even then I don't always use it if the venue is rather dusty. YMMV.
The jury is still out as to whether there is any performance gain when using a K&N filter. Lastly, my mechanic (who sells them) does not recommend them. Go figure?
11-07-2001, 12:11 AM
#45
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John -- or how do you say it? -- Guy? -- just a small point.
Yes, my post was confined to the air filter. However, you dismiss my/Louis' contrbution by saying we've been there. Yet, right after that, you admit, that -- oh yeah -- it IS still a concern. Which is it?
Warmest regards,
Roy
Yes, my post was confined to the air filter. However, you dismiss my/Louis' contrbution by saying we've been there. Yet, right after that, you admit, that -- oh yeah -- it IS still a concern. Which is it?
Warmest regards,
Roy