Normy

Hey-

Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this subject (no choice; I've been in Brussels on business, qnd forced to use a dq,n "azerty" keyboqrd qs used in Europe:::

OK...back to "azerty" to "querty" conversion-

Anyway, I think the problems with my car have to do with bad injectors first and microparticles second. I feel this way because of what happens when I return to Orlando. My S2 with S4 cat/Borla exhaust-equiped and no O2 sensor '85 5 speed runs BAD when I get home, but after 40 miles or so.....starts to sort itself out and returns the automotive pecking order back to where it belongs, with silly chevy bowties in the rear view mirror instead of in the windscreen.

But I've noticed that on hot days in Orlando (go ahead: name a month- we've got 'em. The Shark's house has no heat, but it does have the air conditioner from hell....)that it starts running on 7 cylinders again. This is not an Audi or a Geo that runs on an odd number from the factory, so there is something else wrong.

-What I suspect is happening is that one or two injectors are not firing, possibly due to contamination. Possibly rust......fuel in my 727 can contain enough water to grow algae, and we actually add herbicide to our aviation kerosene type of fuels!

I think

Normy

(Sorry- got booted)

What I think is happening is that the car is running quite lean, despite the fact that I have it adjusted rich (MAF adjusted so that black soot blows out the sideways pointing Borla exhausts and has covered the air compressor in my garage).

I suspect the fuel pump is not putting out the volume it needs, as at idle the system is obviously rich, yet when I floor the throttle on a hot night with someone's headlights in my rear view mirror and look back....I can hear and feel the engine running on 7 cylinders, and then the "sticky" cylinder opens and a huge increase in exhaust smoke is visible in the mirror! That and the car takes off. Again, if the night is cool.....it runs on all 8, but if it is any above about 75 degrees, I can count on some missing. Which is probably detonation due to an over-lean condition....

I think one or two injectors are rusted and partially bad; after all is said and done I'm going to have them professionally cleaned, and run injector cleaner at each fill up with Chevron~

The reason I don't think that my injectors are being "reinfected" by crap from the lines is that the problem seems to work itself out. If it came back full force out of the blue, I would believe in microparticle re-contamination, but that is not the case. If I am home and driving the car daily, it runs great.....except when it gets hot.
And even then it is not bad....not nearly as bad as what has been talked about by some other people here.

-My plans are to take the car to Precision Tune, and have them check the ignition system. This will eliminate the EZK as a source of the problem once and for all. After that I am going to try to find Berryman injector cleaner and pump about three cans through the system with the fuel pump jumpered and see what happens. Then I'm going to change the filter...and drive the car from Florida to Asheville, North Carolina just for the hell of it to visit my mom and dad in March.

-I'll keep you all informed....

Normy

LDRHawke

Norm,

Do not...Do Not...jumper the fuel pump relay and recirculated the fuel without the engine running. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

If an injector is leaking you could flood thar cylinder. Liguid does not compress like air. All sorts of bad things could happen when you try to start it, depending of how much raw gasoline is in the cylinder. Including....BOOOM...no more 928 <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

All the periodic problems you describe can still smply be dirty injectors. I still suggest simply running a concentrated dose of Berryman and allow it to idle for a half hour, then sit over night first. It works very well for me. Plus it is a cheaper first fix attempt.

hawke <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Eric R

Normy:

If dirt is the problem, then Greased Lightning fuel system cleaner is the answer. It has a solvent action, not a detergent, and it does work. Use it in a couple of tanks ...

E

John Struthers

Norm/Hawke,
Still no book Hawke but -and Christ is it a slow method - the CD I am reviewing -getting educated DRBOB- shows a fuel delivery test and as near as I can make out there IS a volume test.
So, Norm, if one of the guy's with a workshop manual handy would be kind enough to run the procedure by you, you can either isolate or discard the fuel pump as 'A' culprit. As near as I could make out - even on the zoom feature - my 82' should be pushing 'at least 1500cc of fuel over the 30 second test'. Either the book/CD is a misprint or it has a values page glitch but it seemed as though similar tests from other models were refered to the SAME PAGE for the VALUES and there was only one listed value (?). IN any case Norm its a simple test , should not take much time, but DO get the procedure from one of the GURU's with a manual. Have not back tracked but even if you have new wires and plugs if you yank the plugs the visual should get you in the ballpark for that suspected coal burning cylinder. Yank em all, and don't hurt those wires!
Hawke got your year/model sHARKs off of your 4th post - typo(?)-.
John S. & Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

Max

'85 Euro S2, with S4 cat/Borla exhaust-equipped and no O2 sensor.
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Normy
Did the '85 S2 5 speed have an O2 sensor to begin with?

Joe R
Yes your car has a wire for an O2 sensor and yes it will make your car do exactly like what you stated.

James Erdmann
As far as the 02 goes - Euros in '85 had LH, right? Which needs the sensor for closed-loop operation. If there are connectors, they run from the ECU behind the power panel to a rubber grommet on the low passenger's side of the center tunnel. When disconnected, they tend to retreat behind the panel.

John Struthers
It’s the puke green wire, either in the fuse box, above the fuse box or along the tunnel under the carpet. Fairly big green wire, sometimes seen traveling with a brown friend.

Can anyone else verify that a 1985 Euro came factory with or without an o2 sensor?

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Normy
It runs on 6-7 cylinders for the most part, only hitting on all 8 after being floored and revved out for a few seconds

Randy V
That's just off the top of my head - could be any number of other things including balky injectors, bad oxygen sensor, plugged fuel filter, stubbly fuel pump, etc.

Ldrhawke
Less than a half full tank and three cans of Berryman worked for me. That way after it is done you can top off the tank and have not much more than what is recommended on the can of injector cleaner in the tank.

Eric R
If dirt is the problem, then Greased Lightning fuel system cleaner is the answer. It has a solvent action, not a detergent, and it does work. Use it in a couple of tanks.

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Fuel in my 727 can contain enough water to grow algae, and we actually add herbicide to our aviation kerosene type of fuels!

Normy,
Let’s hope you meant algaecide, if your ground crew is putting herbicide in the fuel tanks someone going to be in trouble.

As far as the intermittent miss your experiencing, you will need to gather some verified system readings (i.e. fuel pressure and leak down, timing, and so on). Before Vol. 3

This would also be a good time to start cleaning “all” of the ground points and connection and checking and replace (any that are in questionable condition) all the vacuum line.

This type of problem has way to many variables to try and trouble shoot from the hip. I will say I would do the gas additive thing!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Max