jgk62

Ok, the wife has agreed to 'let' me purchase the car of my dreams but I have to sell mine and use this 'dream car' as a daily driver.
I'm torn between a 86 928s and a 87 944 Turbo.
Am I crazy to use this as a daily driver? My commute is only 5 miles round trip.
Also, the wife is real concerned about maintenance costs. I'll make sure the car I buy is inspected (timing belt/water pump etc), but realistically what kind of costs am I looking at for everyday maintenance (oil changes, muffler, tires)?

Aaron Rouse

I drive my 84 928 Euro spec daily, which to ammounts to about 110 miles per day. Knock on wood it has not had to go into the shop this year, yet. It did need a alignment this year and two new front tires though. Last year I spent upwards of $15k on maint/repairs(mostly repairs)/upgrades(Bilstiens/Eibachs, but car needed shocks). Know the complete history of my car, been in my family since 1985 just a lot of the wear items decided to finally go out this year. Things can get rather expensive on a 928 even with one that has the best of histories but then there are years where you spend next to nothing on them.

Randy V

I think you should keep the Toyota and ask the wife if you can once in awhile vist with your ***** that she keeps in her jewelry box.

Sorry, couldn't help it - you set yourself up real good on that one <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> .

Kaz

JGK, I drive my 88S4 daily and last year was a doozy for me in maintenance items. My car crossed the 100k mark and there were simply a lot of worn items that needed replacing. Don't get me wrong, nothing broke, the car is reliable, it's just age and it needs to be done and I like driving a car that's 100%.

Your commute being only 5 miles is almost too short, I doubt the engine will even warm up in that time period much less the cats...you may have to put another 5 mile to and from.


Anyway, if you do proceed, get the newest car you can afford with the ALL the maintenace records. If it's not on the records in recent history, chances are you'll be doing the item whatever it is.


K <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Jerry 87 928S4

Randy, had to wait until I stopped laughing to type this <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

There is a major difference between the two cars so that is your first decision. If either car is in good shape then maint is not an issue. I only spent $400 on my Shark last year.

Big Dave

Randy: ROFL!

JGK: I got my 85 928 this past August. Since then, I purchased two front tires for about $250 total. Since my car came with the original wheels with all season tires as well as 17" cups with Z rated summer only tires, the purchase was discretionary. I've got the all seasons on now until Spring.

I've also replaced the rear shocks with new Boges...I paid a Porsche mechanic to do it for $550 including all parts and labor.

New battery: $160 including labor.

I've got all my service records dating back to about 1993, far enough for me. Pre-purchase inspection revealed some minor leaks which I plan on getting to eventually.

Other than that, I've done a lot of small things such as new interior lights (old ones were cracked), fuses, window switches, repair door panel (design flaw...check the 928 you are looking at for breakage behind the panel beside the driver's side door handle...it pops off), new hood shocks, new rear hatch shocks, and various window washer hose repairs. My total cost for the parts has probably been about $150 and I did the labor myself with the help of the other owners on this site.

It's important to check EVERY dial and switch to make sure they operate properly on both cars...it's a pain in the a$$ to have to chase down shorted circuits. YMMV.

It's my daily driver, about 11 miles each way, and I get more fond of the car each day.

Whichever model you pick, welcome to the club! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

DP

I feel that the BEST thing you can do is get a car with lots of records ...But that still will not protect you from things wearing out and breaking ...Things just happen no matter how well it was maintained...The WORST thing you can do is drive it 2.5 miles and let it sit all day...I think you should find the long way to work so the engine will warm up...It will be much better for the car and you will enjoy the drive no mater where you go...
I bought my 928 3 months ago with 15 plus years of records..The po had just taken the engine out and replaced all the gaskets and seals ...BUT I have an oil leak in the cam tower...Go figure...

If anyone could tell you how much maintenance you are going to have they would be rich...

Bradsters

On the other hand, I bought a 79 928 on E-Bay with 45K, for a great price, with no pre-purchase inspection. Everything is completely original. It looks and drives great. Yep, it leaks a little oil, but not enough to make a difference on the dipstick. It had a new timing belt, water pump, belts, hoses, tires, Borla exhaust, and a new CD player. It looked and felt right, so I bought it and haven't spent hardly anything so far. I once bought another Porsche that had all the records, appeared to be in perfect condition, had it inspected, and that car was a disaster. The odds might favor all the things mentioned in the other responses, but sometines it just comes down to a little luck and horsesense.

Paul D

You also should plan on replacing anything rubber in the engine compartment (vaccuum hoses, ignition wires, radiator hoses, flexible brake/clutch lines as well) if they haven't been replaced already. 20 years is about all the rubber is good for (independent of mileage).

WallyP

If you plan to do 90% or more of your own maintenance, the 928 should be affordable (unless you are really unlucky!)

If you plan to pay someone else to do the maintenance, I doubt that you can afford it.

dr bob

I don't know the nature of the relationship you have with your wife. If she's going to be sensitive to the regular expenses, buy an Accord.

I figured that, when I bought my '89, that the total delivered cost was about the same as a new Accord. That included all my pre-drive stuff like T-Belt, water pump, fluids, and also trip expenses from LA to Denver and the drive back. I snuck in registration fees and first-year insurance on the 928 too, still under the $19k sticker an an EX automatic. Since then the 928 hasn't depreciated any, so my net cost is still better than the Honda would have been. Which would I rather drive? Hmmm.


I love my car, don't get to drive it often because I travel too much, and manage to do my own work when it needs it. In the four-plus years of ownership it only stranded me once, and that was in my own garage when the battery died of old age. $120 and I put the new one in, maybe two hours total replace time, or at least twice what it would have cost in an Accord. get the idea? Anyway, it's a wonderful car, a total gas to drive, elegant high-speed touring, carries two sets of clubs and weekend luggage (sorry, 944 owners...), will never be mistaken for a kiddy-rocket (sorry, 944 owners...), and always gets a good second look wherever you arrive.


I also keep the Explorer for grocery runs, Home Depot and the like. If you can manage to have a second "her" car that you can use in a pinch, or don't mind taking the mountain bike to work when the car isn't feeling good, you may be a candidate for a 928. As much as some folks here claim to have them as daily drivers, we still find them sitting in repair shops waiting for parts or attention occasionally. I don't care to drive mine in the rain, can't leave it at the airport when I travel, have it in an inside garage when I work in town, etc. So much for daily driver.


---------------------------------

Maintenance Expenses--

Expenses get distributed over the miles you drive, but don't ever get below the costs of a 12k mile year. Here goes:

-- T-belt every 45k, roughly $1200, or $300/yr.
-- Oil change at a specialist, $100 every 5k.
-- Tires last 5k to 20k, depends on your driving and the tires. Cost varies between about $400 and $1k/set.
-- Brakes every 25k or so, depends on driving. Rotors every other pad change, so about $200/yr.
-- Other fluids (diff, coolant, gearbox, brakes) at $150/yr.
-- Tuneup every 2 years at $400, or about $200/yr.
-- Other stuff I forgot to list is another $100/yr.

Do you have the capability to do some of the "normal" maintenance stuff? Oil changes require that you raise the car, remove a belly pan on S4 and later models, and swp 8 qts of synthetic and a filter. Parts cost is around than $40, so a $hundred/yr is saved. Work on your own brakes? Save a pile there too.


As Jim Bailey sagely reminds us, you are considering the purchase of a sixteen year old car. It's a used car that's been driven 100k or more, and that's 'occasional' use (15k/yr average in the US is about average). It has sixteen years of fun under the roof already, with all the deterioration that comes with the age. Plus it has the wear that goes with whatever actual miles are on it. Take a look at 1986 Honda and see what the to-do list is like, and project that to a car that sold for four times what that Honda sold for. Multiply the repair costs by that same factor of four, and you might be in the ballpark.


Maybe you should approach first-year repairs with a budget number in mind, with, say, $15k and 1985 median points. First-year repairs will be $1k, plus 10% of each purchase dollar below $15k, plus $500 for each year before 1985. So figure that a $10k 1985 car would be $1500 in first year repairs. A $7k 1980 car would be $2200. Gets pretty ugly when you consider a '78 for $4k, but you get the idea. Remember that this is just the repair budget, and is in addition to the maintenance budget stuff listed above. The repair budget should go down after the initial year, as you get things baselined.

This assumes that you are starting with a car that's in relatively good shape, with wheels that all go in the same direction, and with nothing close to worn out. You'll get to add in some costs for premature/first year baseline items, and a fudge factor for timing belt immediacy, plus radiators, electrical gremlins, the stereo upgrade, rear windows tinted, carpets and mats, leather seat bolster repairs,etc. Depending on the age and condition of the car that can be in the $thousands or in the $hundreds, as others have posted.


Is your wife reading this? Good. Hate to blow your cover.


I have the luxury of being able to keep the car as a toy, and I treat it that way financially. I don't commute to work so reliability doesn't enter into that getting-to-work-daily part of the discussion. On the other hand, the cars are all kept to a level where, if I wanted to, I could jump into any of them and dash of on a cross-country vacation to the other coast without a second thought.


Ready to go out and spend $12k on your "new" '86 (hopefully an 86.5...), add $1500 or so in rather immediate repairs, plus another $1500 or so in scheduled maintenance the first year? If so, welcome to the group!

I love this car!!!!!


<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Aaron Rouse

Funny to compare to a Honda Accord, since we also have a 2001 Accord Ex that is the four door 4 cylinder one not even the stinking V6. In the past two years the cost to keep the 928 on the road has almost equaled the cost of buying the Accord. Now had I paid anything for my 928 then the cost of maint on the Accord plus its original price would fall under the cost of the 928. The 928 had about 96k miles on it when I got it, all maint was always done and anytime something broke it went into the shop. I have file folders full of shop bills since 1985. I have a real hard time comparing a 928 to an Accord price and cost of keeping wise.

On that note, I HATE our Accord the thing is made for small people, I am only 6'2" and about 215lbs yet can not get comfortable in the thing and it loves to warp the brake rotors in no time. I do like my 928 but since it is my daily driver when something breaks it has to be fixed ASAP and that means taking it to a mechanic and those labor charges add up real quick like.

DougM

The 928 or 944 will most definitely cost more to maintain than your average Honda, Toyota etc...However, they will not depreciate as much, and there is even a slight chance that the sports car will appreciate during the ownership, but don't buy it for this reason. The overall factor should be if you want a car that can put a smile on your face whenever you get behind the wheel. This is the offset of owning any sports car. Practicality comes second.
You must also keep in mind that when you buy a sports car, such as a Porsche, you will be tempted with many upgrades for appearance and performance which can add up $$$. These extra dollars would probably not be spent on an Accord.

Aaron Rouse

Hasn't the resale value on the 928 done nothing but fall over the years? I know from my brother n laws that sell cars, the Hondas actually are pretty good about holder their resale value. I do not know in regards to the 944/951 for resale value, now the 911 seems to be a whole other story in regards to its resale value.

DougM

My 2 previous 928's, an '85 928s Auto and an '87 s4 5-spd, I sold for a little over the price that I paid. Had each one for 2-3 years. My costs were maintenance and upgrades only which was @$3k per year average. Had I kept them longer, that figure would have dropped. Higher maintenance, but less depreciation. I'm sure my current '89 GT will probably be the same if I ever go to sell it.