What recourse do I have?
09-10-2002, 12:48 PM
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What recourse do I have?
This is a sort of update to my last post - Stranded.. Help! For those that didn't read it, here was the situation:
Car died on me while on a trip a ways from home. After parking lot sleuthing turned up nothing, had car towed to mechanic.
Talked to the mechanic today (who owns a 928 as his daily driver...) He informed me that my entire fuel system (CIS): sender, distributor, fuel filter, injectors, etc. were plugged with nasty SLUDGE! Said it looked like "fish poop". Not line corrosion... wrong consistency and way too much of it. I had just filled the car up at my usual gas station (Sunoco, 2 blocks from my house, 94 octane) that morning before leaving on my trip (literally on my way to get on the highway). I'm thinking I must have gotten the dregs of the tank... REALLY bad gas. Now I'm stuck with $1000+ in fuel system cleaning and repair bills. Do I have any recourse against the station that sold me the bad gas?? I know the owner, as I used to take my old Dodge there for service. Any ideas?
-Brian Bowman
1980 928S 5sp. Euro
Silbermetallic/Blau
Temporarily Kaput!!
Car died on me while on a trip a ways from home. After parking lot sleuthing turned up nothing, had car towed to mechanic.
Talked to the mechanic today (who owns a 928 as his daily driver...) He informed me that my entire fuel system (CIS): sender, distributor, fuel filter, injectors, etc. were plugged with nasty SLUDGE! Said it looked like "fish poop". Not line corrosion... wrong consistency and way too much of it. I had just filled the car up at my usual gas station (Sunoco, 2 blocks from my house, 94 octane) that morning before leaving on my trip (literally on my way to get on the highway). I'm thinking I must have gotten the dregs of the tank... REALLY bad gas. Now I'm stuck with $1000+ in fuel system cleaning and repair bills. Do I have any recourse against the station that sold me the bad gas?? I know the owner, as I used to take my old Dodge there for service. Any ideas?
-Brian Bowman
1980 928S 5sp. Euro
Silbermetallic/Blau
Temporarily Kaput!!
09-10-2002, 12:57 PM
#2
928 Engine Re-Re-Rebuild Specialist
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It's a simple matter of proof. If you can prove the gas came from that station, you've got a good chance that the owner will have to talk to you about helping fix the problem. Hopefully, you "paid at the pump" and kept the receipt showing how much you bought, where you bought it, and when you bought it. The other "proof" issue is whether you can prove (or at least make a good argument) that your problems are indeed caused by bad gas and not some neighborhood punk who poured some crap in your tank.
If you can find out when the station's last delivery of gas was, it could help you. If it truly was the bottom of the station's tank, they should have been refilled quite soon thereafter. Even if the station-owner doesn't want to tell you, he'll have to understand that you could force him to turn the information over if you take him to small claims court. Ditto with any credit card receipts for customers who may also have gotten bad gas around the same time you filled up. Avoiding claims from other customers may be incentive for the station to work something out with you.
Don't except the station to volunteer to help you.
HTH
If you can find out when the station's last delivery of gas was, it could help you. If it truly was the bottom of the station's tank, they should have been refilled quite soon thereafter. Even if the station-owner doesn't want to tell you, he'll have to understand that you could force him to turn the information over if you take him to small claims court. Ditto with any credit card receipts for customers who may also have gotten bad gas around the same time you filled up. Avoiding claims from other customers may be incentive for the station to work something out with you.
Don't except the station to volunteer to help you.
HTH
09-10-2002, 01:01 PM
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Brian, you should try the gentlemanly approach first. Talk to the guy. If you know him that makes it even better. Sounds like you've been a loyal customer for years, I'm sure he'd hate to lose a regular.
$1000 is not that much when you are talking liability for a business owner. it'll cost him that much in lawyers fees if you decide to sue him.
I would, just to be safe, go buy a gallon or so of the same gas from the same pump before too much time has passed. Lab testing can show you whether or not it was the gas that caused the problem.
I had a similar problem a few years ago with my wife's Mustang. I didn't know the station owner, but had been a regular customer. All I had to do was show them my gas reciept and then the shops reciept and the shops explaination letter. The owner wrote me a check right there, after I signed a letter releasing them from further damages. Total on mine was around $1500, every component in the fuel system replaced including the tank.
$1000 is not that much when you are talking liability for a business owner. it'll cost him that much in lawyers fees if you decide to sue him.
I would, just to be safe, go buy a gallon or so of the same gas from the same pump before too much time has passed. Lab testing can show you whether or not it was the gas that caused the problem.
I had a similar problem a few years ago with my wife's Mustang. I didn't know the station owner, but had been a regular customer. All I had to do was show them my gas reciept and then the shops reciept and the shops explaination letter. The owner wrote me a check right there, after I signed a letter releasing them from further damages. Total on mine was around $1500, every component in the fuel system replaced including the tank.
09-10-2002, 02:47 PM
#4
Racer
I wonder if the station had received a load of fuel just before or during your last fill up?
Some states require a fuel depot to test for water and other contamination on a regular basis. You may want to check your states regulation on this.
Hope everything works out
Some states require a fuel depot to test for water and other contamination on a regular basis. You may want to check your states regulation on this.
Hope everything works out
09-10-2002, 03:24 PM
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Update:
I stopped by the station this afternoon and spoke with the owner. He was extremely helpful and suggested that I call Sunoco's customer service - as they do the maintenance on the tanks. He said that it was strange that he hadn't had any other complaints, but that anything was possible. He was interested especially because he puts the same gas in his '69 Corvette! At any rate, after a call to Sunoco's customer service, here is the upshot: I am to save the fuel filter and a sample of the gasoline. They will take them to their lab, and if they determine that their gas was the cause of the problem, they will not only refund my money for the gasoline but will cover the entire cost of the repair. I called the shop and they are saving both the filter and a sample of the sludge-filled fuel. Hopefully the planets will align, and Sunoco will end up footing the bill on this one! Updates to follow as developments occur.
-Brian
1980 928S 5sp. Euro
Silbermetallic/Blau
Temporarily Kaput!!
I stopped by the station this afternoon and spoke with the owner. He was extremely helpful and suggested that I call Sunoco's customer service - as they do the maintenance on the tanks. He said that it was strange that he hadn't had any other complaints, but that anything was possible. He was interested especially because he puts the same gas in his '69 Corvette! At any rate, after a call to Sunoco's customer service, here is the upshot: I am to save the fuel filter and a sample of the gasoline. They will take them to their lab, and if they determine that their gas was the cause of the problem, they will not only refund my money for the gasoline but will cover the entire cost of the repair. I called the shop and they are saving both the filter and a sample of the sludge-filled fuel. Hopefully the planets will align, and Sunoco will end up footing the bill on this one! Updates to follow as developments occur.
-Brian
1980 928S 5sp. Euro
Silbermetallic/Blau
Temporarily Kaput!!
09-10-2002, 03:36 PM
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FYI - I make it a practice to never buy gas when I see a tanker unloading at a gas station. That's when the junk settled in the bottom of their storage tank gets stirred up and mixed with the new stuff going in.
I am curious why your filter didn't stop the crud from reaching your injectors. I suspect that you've had this problem for some time and didn't know it. I also wonder if your oil is clean or contaminated. Just wondering...
I am curious why your filter didn't stop the crud from reaching your injectors. I suspect that you've had this problem for some time and didn't know it. I also wonder if your oil is clean or contaminated. Just wondering...
09-10-2002, 05:16 PM
#7
Drifting
Hi all
I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but here it is: I am a state certified underground storage tank remover and installer in several states. These "UST'S" are where the gasoline you buy is stored and dispensed from. These UST'S contain submersible pumps in the tank. The pickup point for these pumps are required by most states to be no closer to the bottom of the tank than 4" and no further from the bottom than 6". This virtually eliminates the possibilty of picking up "dregs" from the bottom of the tank. In the case of gasoline UST'S, in my 20 years in the business, I have never encountered a tank during a removal with more than a half inch or so of sludge in it. Also, the dispensers ( the thing with the hose )have filters on them very similar to the oil filter on your shark. If and when these plug up ( rare ) the dispenser will cease putting fuel into your car. Water, however, has been known to accumulate in UST'S and be pumped into vehichles. If this had been your problem you very well could have a case. For those of you who would like to increase your knowledge, or would just like to see what a UST looks like, visit my corporate website at <a href="http://WWW.Venturecontracting.com<a href="http://www.Venturecontracting.com" target="_blank">Venture" target="_blank">WWW.Venturecontracting.com[URL=http://www.Venturecontracting.com]Venture</a> Contracting Home</a>
I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but here it is: I am a state certified underground storage tank remover and installer in several states. These "UST'S" are where the gasoline you buy is stored and dispensed from. These UST'S contain submersible pumps in the tank. The pickup point for these pumps are required by most states to be no closer to the bottom of the tank than 4" and no further from the bottom than 6". This virtually eliminates the possibilty of picking up "dregs" from the bottom of the tank. In the case of gasoline UST'S, in my 20 years in the business, I have never encountered a tank during a removal with more than a half inch or so of sludge in it. Also, the dispensers ( the thing with the hose )have filters on them very similar to the oil filter on your shark. If and when these plug up ( rare ) the dispenser will cease putting fuel into your car. Water, however, has been known to accumulate in UST'S and be pumped into vehichles. If this had been your problem you very well could have a case. For those of you who would like to increase your knowledge, or would just like to see what a UST looks like, visit my corporate website at <a href="http://WWW.Venturecontracting.com<a href="http://www.Venturecontracting.com" target="_blank">Venture" target="_blank">WWW.Venturecontracting.com[URL=http://www.Venturecontracting.com]Venture</a> Contracting Home</a>
