Am I out of line?
06-16-2002, 04:12 AM
#1
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Am I out of line?
Am I out of line?
-I think it is important for the 928 community to support the infamous "Big Three"- I have and am proud that when I call one of them, they generally know me by first name basis.
But tonight I am unhappy with one of them because one of their employees decided to bid against me for a part on Ebay.
Ok, so now I've "unzipped my fly" metaphorically. By posting this, I'm certain that I've let them know who I am, and as such, I am worried that now they are less likely to want to help me out with technical advice or good service. At the same time, I still feel like there is a conflict of interest, of sorts, going on here.
[In the aviation business, we talk about a thing called CRM- which is Crew Resource Management. Essentially, we are taught that crewmembers, maintenance people, dispatchers, schedulers, engineers, and even passengers are all RESOURCES. Resources of information, that might help me keep my Airline Transport Pilot licence or at least....continue breathing.]
My narrow *** hates to destroy resources-
I mean think about it- If one of the big three were to bid on every part on Ebay, they could potentially corner the market. And increase their prices for parts. Henry Flagler built 500 miles of railroad, including 108 miles of roads and bridges through the Florida keys because he was able to corner the oil market in the 1890's.
I have no problem with the parts prices charged by the big three. They need to make a living, and I am willing to help them out, but I DONT think this type of activity is fair.
So you could play "devil's advocate" and say that any one person has the right to bid on any part they desire, and I would agree with you. But in this case, I'm sorry- it's not fair. By doing this, he/she is hurting us all . I've sent an email to the person who did this. But I want to know if I'm out of line-
Normy~
-I think it is important for the 928 community to support the infamous "Big Three"- I have and am proud that when I call one of them, they generally know me by first name basis.
But tonight I am unhappy with one of them because one of their employees decided to bid against me for a part on Ebay.
Ok, so now I've "unzipped my fly" metaphorically. By posting this, I'm certain that I've let them know who I am, and as such, I am worried that now they are less likely to want to help me out with technical advice or good service. At the same time, I still feel like there is a conflict of interest, of sorts, going on here.
[In the aviation business, we talk about a thing called CRM- which is Crew Resource Management. Essentially, we are taught that crewmembers, maintenance people, dispatchers, schedulers, engineers, and even passengers are all RESOURCES. Resources of information, that might help me keep my Airline Transport Pilot licence or at least....continue breathing.]
My narrow *** hates to destroy resources-
I mean think about it- If one of the big three were to bid on every part on Ebay, they could potentially corner the market. And increase their prices for parts. Henry Flagler built 500 miles of railroad, including 108 miles of roads and bridges through the Florida keys because he was able to corner the oil market in the 1890's.
I have no problem with the parts prices charged by the big three. They need to make a living, and I am willing to help them out, but I DONT think this type of activity is fair.
So you could play "devil's advocate" and say that any one person has the right to bid on any part they desire, and I would agree with you. But in this case, I'm sorry- it's not fair. By doing this, he/she is hurting us all . I've sent an email to the person who did this. But I want to know if I'm out of line-
Normy~
06-16-2002, 05:03 AM
#2
We had a choice?
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Normy,
Was it a snipe bid? Was it for their personal vehicle? Did they bid more than the part was worth? I too watch Ebay (daily) for parts and often wondered if I'm bidding against someone who frequents the board. (Why are we up at this hour?) It's hard to say "don't take it personal" without just a little more information.
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />
Was it a snipe bid? Was it for their personal vehicle? Did they bid more than the part was worth? I too watch Ebay (daily) for parts and often wondered if I'm bidding against someone who frequents the board. (Why are we up at this hour?) It's hard to say "don't take it personal" without just a little more information.
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />
06-16-2002, 08:56 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
From a seller's point of view - you're out of line. From a free market point of view - you're out of line.
Besides, many of the folks who work at any of the Big Three also own 928s. If a bargain comes up on ebay, they have as much right to bid on it as you. It's afree market, get used to it. YMMV.
Besides, many of the folks who work at any of the Big Three also own 928s. If a bargain comes up on ebay, they have as much right to bid on it as you. It's afree market, get used to it. YMMV.
06-16-2002, 09:32 AM
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if they got it for the company with the intent of re-selling it for more money, i'd say you might have a point.
if they got it for personal use and you failed to bid high enough to win the item, i believe the correct term is "tough luck".
who knows what they got it for unless you see the same item relisted for a higher price.
IMO
if they got it for personal use and you failed to bid high enough to win the item, i believe the correct term is "tough luck".
who knows what they got it for unless you see the same item relisted for a higher price.
IMO
06-16-2002, 09:54 AM
#5
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I've been outbid bid by 2 out of the three 928 suppliers on a couple of occassions. I was not bummed. Ebay is part business, part sport. It can even be fun.
I've even toyed with outbidding Ed Ruiz on occasion just to bust 'em. Sorry Ed.
Don't take being outbid personal. It wasn't. It was business. The 928 supplier bid what he thought the item was worth to him and considered what he could get for it. I have a complete black leather interior I bought just for those reasons. Not to mention a set of Club Sport wheels, too.
There's always next time.
I've even toyed with outbidding Ed Ruiz on occasion just to bust 'em. Sorry Ed.
Don't take being outbid personal. It wasn't. It was business. The 928 supplier bid what he thought the item was worth to him and considered what he could get for it. I have a complete black leather interior I bought just for those reasons. Not to mention a set of Club Sport wheels, too.
There's always next time.
06-16-2002, 10:06 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Normy,
I would understand your felings if this was a part you needed to kep your car running, and now have to buy it from the same supplier who outbid you.
In that case, I would buy that part from another supplier just to feel some sort of victory.
I would not hold a grudge. As you pointed out, the service and advice from the "big three" is
very good. Don't let personal feelings get in the way. We're in for the long haul.
I don't know who the supplier was, but, if they ever hold a 928 gathering and serve food, just pocket some extra hot dogs and sodas when no one is looking to get even!
Greg
I would understand your felings if this was a part you needed to kep your car running, and now have to buy it from the same supplier who outbid you.
In that case, I would buy that part from another supplier just to feel some sort of victory.
I would not hold a grudge. As you pointed out, the service and advice from the "big three" is
very good. Don't let personal feelings get in the way. We're in for the long haul.
I don't know who the supplier was, but, if they ever hold a 928 gathering and serve food, just pocket some extra hot dogs and sodas when no one is looking to get even!
Greg
06-16-2002, 10:41 AM
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Well, I don't hold grudges at all- In fact I'll probably buy the part in question [rear hatch lock- Tiberion got it for $82, one of the big three sells it for $342] from these guys when I get pissed off enough at not being able to get into the hatch.
But the numbers display my point perfectly. I'm certain that the individual involved was bidding on it in order to turn around and sell it for a profit. I believe what Ed said- they have the right to bid as they chose, but that still doesn't make it right.
I don't mind the bidding wars on Ebay at all- indeed that is the fun part [Tibe has fast fingers!].
Normy~
But the numbers display my point perfectly. I'm certain that the individual involved was bidding on it in order to turn around and sell it for a profit. I believe what Ed said- they have the right to bid as they chose, but that still doesn't make it right.
I don't mind the bidding wars on Ebay at all- indeed that is the fun part [Tibe has fast fingers!].
Normy~
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06-16-2002, 11:18 AM
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if some high-seniority overseas crew bids your domestic routes are you going to get pissed? yes. do you have this right? no.
if access.com members buy up all the good stones tickets prior to the public sale, am i going to be pissed? yes. do i have this right? no.
open auction, just seems you don't like the affiliation of some of the bidders.
here's one for you: auction by govt of foreclosed homes. guess who will make a (rediculously low) bid: you guessed it, gov't.
i think you'd best get over it and smooth your differences with the vendors as your need for them is long term. i would agree with you that specially keyed hatch release price is outrageous.
if access.com members buy up all the good stones tickets prior to the public sale, am i going to be pissed? yes. do i have this right? no.
open auction, just seems you don't like the affiliation of some of the bidders.
here's one for you: auction by govt of foreclosed homes. guess who will make a (rediculously low) bid: you guessed it, gov't.
i think you'd best get over it and smooth your differences with the vendors as your need for them is long term. i would agree with you that specially keyed hatch release price is outrageous.
06-16-2002, 11:19 AM
#9
Norm,
When I cruise the Bay, I often wonder if you could do a $5.00 over, proxy bid.
Who knows? Whatever part they got could be a piece of trash...
As it stands the Bay is set up like an unlimited stakes poker game... If Bill Gates sits down at that poker table "you lose".
I was really jerked off when I went off in search of a 928 about a year and a half ago.
I covered both coasts and a hell of a lot in between by car and air. I spent thousands - there goes the S4 - on criminal advertising. I am like a momma bear when it comes to Pattycakes, but I still want an S4. The Bay is a crap shoot, even when you win you can lose. The sellers are crazy if I am going to pay a dime before comparing that;
'Mint condition, prefect, concours, show room condition, pampered low mileage, everything works,
maintained by Porsche trained technicians on a regular, scheduled basis.....parts car! Damn near had a couple of fists fights- I was squared off and ready to hurt people and in one instance willing to stay a few days, get an attorney and sue the pants of a guy who was going to leave me stranded northweast of Miami.
Back to it, you and I know damned well 'that guy' could have got his part off the shelf at his workplace cheap as, or, cheaper than the Bay... for those who believe otherwise, take the blinders off. I support the Three as well, we simply need to keep these niche guys alive. I don't have a favorite by any other criteria than PRICE. I'll stand corrected if proven otherwise,
and yes, I know that EBay and the run of the mill user of that site are in it to make or save money -winner take all-.
But with a personal relationships in the small employee number Big Three. Not to mention a employee discount, a deferred payment plan, maybe interest free, no shipping cost,and say, "can we just forget the sales tax" situation. This doesn't sound like sour grapes. I also agree it does little good to hold a grudge.
But hell Norm, feel free to vent!
I'm still ordering parts... PM me with part and outfit and atleast they won't profit from that one on my dime. MY OPINION.
Hows the clutch coming? Don't forget that damned shifter cup/ball while you are in there.
John S. and Pattycakes
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
When I cruise the Bay, I often wonder if you could do a $5.00 over, proxy bid.
Who knows? Whatever part they got could be a piece of trash...
As it stands the Bay is set up like an unlimited stakes poker game... If Bill Gates sits down at that poker table "you lose".
I was really jerked off when I went off in search of a 928 about a year and a half ago.
I covered both coasts and a hell of a lot in between by car and air. I spent thousands - there goes the S4 - on criminal advertising. I am like a momma bear when it comes to Pattycakes, but I still want an S4. The Bay is a crap shoot, even when you win you can lose. The sellers are crazy if I am going to pay a dime before comparing that;
'Mint condition, prefect, concours, show room condition, pampered low mileage, everything works,
maintained by Porsche trained technicians on a regular, scheduled basis.....parts car! Damn near had a couple of fists fights- I was squared off and ready to hurt people and in one instance willing to stay a few days, get an attorney and sue the pants of a guy who was going to leave me stranded northweast of Miami.
Back to it, you and I know damned well 'that guy' could have got his part off the shelf at his workplace cheap as, or, cheaper than the Bay... for those who believe otherwise, take the blinders off. I support the Three as well, we simply need to keep these niche guys alive. I don't have a favorite by any other criteria than PRICE. I'll stand corrected if proven otherwise,
and yes, I know that EBay and the run of the mill user of that site are in it to make or save money -winner take all-.
But with a personal relationships in the small employee number Big Three. Not to mention a employee discount, a deferred payment plan, maybe interest free, no shipping cost,and say, "can we just forget the sales tax" situation. This doesn't sound like sour grapes. I also agree it does little good to hold a grudge.
But hell Norm, feel free to vent!
I'm still ordering parts... PM me with part and outfit and atleast they won't profit from that one on my dime. MY OPINION.
Hows the clutch coming? Don't forget that damned shifter cup/ball while you are in there.
John S. and Pattycakes
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
06-16-2002, 11:29 AM
#10
Norm,
Maybe another attack of serendipity...
Have you contacted Dozman up in Michigan? Posted somewhere on page 2 or three give him a shot... if not get back to me there are a few other guys sniff/boo-hoo parting.
John S.
Maybe another attack of serendipity...
Have you contacted Dozman up in Michigan? Posted somewhere on page 2 or three give him a shot... if not get back to me there are a few other guys sniff/boo-hoo parting.
John S.
06-16-2002, 12:58 PM
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a bad at e-bay story
one of my customers bought two cars on e-bay. a 73 mb 450 sl, 97 volvo 850t. she had both cars shipped to my door for check and and snuffing up any issues befor driving them daily. on the sl, it looked good, straight and clean. nice interior.when it was put on a lift it was rust from one end to the other. totally unfit for use. on the volvo, again appeared straight and clean all over. on the lift, noticed body repairs in right front. (body shop didnt paint over the heated spot on the frame rail) after taking some measurements found the right side of car to be nearly 1.5 inches shorter than the left. this was supposed to be a reputable dealer assured full garantee of happiness or refunds apply. the person is now using her lawyer in atlanta and a lawyer in fla. to try and return the vehicles, recover her money and at this time considering sueing for all these added costs. mostly i falt the purchaser for not going there to check what she was recieving before shipping, but as you read the sale contract it says (money back) plus the fact that she may have approved them if she had gone there as she wouldnt know what to look for anyway. at this point she is out 25k and climbing. e-bay is a gamble. even more so when the writen word cant be taken at face value. no matter what they say it still boils down to consumer beware. good luck and good hunting (shopping) at any of your favorite internet sites.
one of my customers bought two cars on e-bay. a 73 mb 450 sl, 97 volvo 850t. she had both cars shipped to my door for check and and snuffing up any issues befor driving them daily. on the sl, it looked good, straight and clean. nice interior.when it was put on a lift it was rust from one end to the other. totally unfit for use. on the volvo, again appeared straight and clean all over. on the lift, noticed body repairs in right front. (body shop didnt paint over the heated spot on the frame rail) after taking some measurements found the right side of car to be nearly 1.5 inches shorter than the left. this was supposed to be a reputable dealer assured full garantee of happiness or refunds apply. the person is now using her lawyer in atlanta and a lawyer in fla. to try and return the vehicles, recover her money and at this time considering sueing for all these added costs. mostly i falt the purchaser for not going there to check what she was recieving before shipping, but as you read the sale contract it says (money back) plus the fact that she may have approved them if she had gone there as she wouldnt know what to look for anyway. at this point she is out 25k and climbing. e-bay is a gamble. even more so when the writen word cant be taken at face value. no matter what they say it still boils down to consumer beware. good luck and good hunting (shopping) at any of your favorite internet sites.
06-16-2002, 01:41 PM
#12
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[quote]Originally posted by Joel Roeder:
<strong>kevin? are you done yet?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not yet. I still need to find some OEM Porsche air for my tires.
So, Roeder you finally joined in the fun.
Oh well, there goes the neighborhood.
How's the Bass? <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
<strong>kevin? are you done yet?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not yet. I still need to find some OEM Porsche air for my tires.
So, Roeder you finally joined in the fun.
Oh well, there goes the neighborhood.
How's the Bass? <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
06-16-2002, 11:40 PM
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Yeah John- I did the clutch Friday and as I expected, it was a pain in the rear. And also as I expected, I found a badly funkalated pilot bearing, a warped pressure plate, and clutch discs that were history. Thus the vibrating clutch pedal was explained....
HOT tip on contacting Dozman- I'll see what he has to say RE a rear hatch lock. Thanx again!
Normy!
HOT tip on contacting Dozman- I'll see what he has to say RE a rear hatch lock. Thanx again!
Normy!
06-17-2002, 08:15 AM
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Ebay is nothing new...
I have had good luck MOST of the time. But I have been taken on a few parts now and then. A friend purchased a car some months back. Turned out that the frame was almost rusted through in the rear (unsafe to even drive back home from the shop) and a few other "minor" items. No money back...so he's stuck and he's pissed. He is seeking legal paths also and it's looking good for the buyer.
My 928 clutch is grabbing and the pedal was vibrating...I have a complete clutch kit on the way. Not looking forward to the double-clutch plate replacement...but that's the price you gotta pay for performance!
79 928
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I have had good luck MOST of the time. But I have been taken on a few parts now and then. A friend purchased a car some months back. Turned out that the frame was almost rusted through in the rear (unsafe to even drive back home from the shop) and a few other "minor" items. No money back...so he's stuck and he's pissed. He is seeking legal paths also and it's looking good for the buyer.
My 928 clutch is grabbing and the pedal was vibrating...I have a complete clutch kit on the way. Not looking forward to the double-clutch plate replacement...but that's the price you gotta pay for performance!
79 928
<a href="http://clik.to/PORSCHE928DRIVER" target="_blank">Personal WebPages:</a>
06-17-2002, 01:31 PM
#15
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Normy: It sounds like you should have just outbid him?? If they start inflating prices that is another thing. I have vented on Phil's board about e-bay. E-bay brings buyers and seller together and after that, you are on your own. I think we all know it is skewed toward the sellers because that is who pays the bill. I vented on Phil's board about being out bid by a deadbeat whose last 5 bids were not honored. Ebay's feature of encouraging the seller to make an offer one bid lower seduces the seller to believe the price/market is at that level, nevermind the last 5 bids were crap. The seller now knows my proxy was $xxx. But in an auction, I am not going to bid against myself. I felt the last legitimate bid was $900 lower, and who is that (0) feedback bidder anyway?? Result: No sale, and two pissed off E-bayers, and the deadbeat walks away. It's fun, but on high ticket items, I bet there are a lot of ruffled feathers. The above example was a "no reserve" which he didn't honor because the seller now expected the higher price. Well, this is probably more than anybody cares about but it happens.