Supertrapp on 928
09-03-2002, 01:10 AM
#1
Supertrapp on 928
Hello all. I am considering on putting a supertrapp on my shark. Does anyone out there have experience using them. How many disc's would you recommend. I will just have the cat and supertrapp when done. Any suggestions?
09-11-2002, 10:54 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Jim -
Being that supertrapps are usually reserved for motorcycles - I wouldn't suggest it for your shark. I don't think you would be happy with the performance results or sound. But, if you do decide to go w/ST - rule of thumb. The more discs, the less back pressure.
I used to have a ST on my Street Bike and even then, I wasn't happy with the performance. I ended up removing all the discs and running it as an open pipe.
If you want good results for the same amount of money - Bypass the secondary muffler, hang a 3 chamber flowmaster instead of the bathtub muffler. Whatever you do, don't throw away the tub, those things are EXSPENSIVE.
Happy Motoring <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Being that supertrapps are usually reserved for motorcycles - I wouldn't suggest it for your shark. I don't think you would be happy with the performance results or sound. But, if you do decide to go w/ST - rule of thumb. The more discs, the less back pressure.
I used to have a ST on my Street Bike and even then, I wasn't happy with the performance. I ended up removing all the discs and running it as an open pipe.
If you want good results for the same amount of money - Bypass the secondary muffler, hang a 3 chamber flowmaster instead of the bathtub muffler. Whatever you do, don't throw away the tub, those things are EXSPENSIVE.
Happy Motoring <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
09-12-2002, 02:24 PM
#3
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Hey Drewster, my "bathtub" muffler rusted at the inlet pipe. It was ready to fall off so before it did I removed it. Yes they are expensive. I just welded a 3" down tube in its place. It does sound pretty good with just the cat and intermediate muffler.
Do you think I should leave it like that or do you think that intermediate muffler is hurting me. I dont think a flowmaster will fit where the intermediate muffler sits and I think it might hang low in the back. Not sure what to do about it but for now im fine I guess.
Do you think I should leave it like that or do you think that intermediate muffler is hurting me. I dont think a flowmaster will fit where the intermediate muffler sits and I think it might hang low in the back. Not sure what to do about it but for now im fine I guess.
09-12-2002, 03:10 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I will say this - There is nothing finer than a California Girl.
Back to the topic at Hand -
The secondary muffler was installed as a "baffle". If you read other post regarding Rear Muffler Bypasses, no HP or little HP was gained by omitting the secondary muffler.
My suggestion to you would be to remove the secondary and install straigt pipes. Remove the straight pipe you installed in place of the bathtub and find a performance muffler which can fit in place. I know that flowmasters make different sizes as well as Dynomax. On my 924s, I used a Dynomax cat back system and the muffler for that was relatively small. When searching for a replacement, do the technical research. I.E. Air Volume, Back pressure and so forth.
On my Shark I have MSDS Stainless Stell Headers, the original cats and oem mufflers. I plan on removing or punching out the Cats, removing the secondary muffler and installing a two chamber flowmaster. With the right pipe bend and a modified support bracket, the flowmaster may just fit. I won't know for sure until I install but at first glance - It should work.
Being that your in S.Cal., go to a performance, speed shop that deals/services exotic imports or Porsches. Or visit a non-franchised muffler shop. I say non-franchise because I have had the best luck fabricating exhaust work with the average joe shop - who wants your business. Midas/Meineke frown (at least in Phoenix) on performance fabrication. Too much time involved with little monetary returns. They want the most volume each given month. Too much time wasted on fabrication means no return.
Remember This - Exhaust systems can be modified very easily. Switching location of mufflers and exhaust tips is a preference to the owner. Everything within reason and moderation -
To recap -
Remove your secondary muffler and install straight pipes.
Install a performance muffler in lue of the bathtub.
Fabrication and modification of location is owner preferenced.
Within reason and not to extreme.
Hope this helps and Good Luck getting it dialed in.
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
Back to the topic at Hand -
The secondary muffler was installed as a "baffle". If you read other post regarding Rear Muffler Bypasses, no HP or little HP was gained by omitting the secondary muffler.
My suggestion to you would be to remove the secondary and install straigt pipes. Remove the straight pipe you installed in place of the bathtub and find a performance muffler which can fit in place. I know that flowmasters make different sizes as well as Dynomax. On my 924s, I used a Dynomax cat back system and the muffler for that was relatively small. When searching for a replacement, do the technical research. I.E. Air Volume, Back pressure and so forth.
On my Shark I have MSDS Stainless Stell Headers, the original cats and oem mufflers. I plan on removing or punching out the Cats, removing the secondary muffler and installing a two chamber flowmaster. With the right pipe bend and a modified support bracket, the flowmaster may just fit. I won't know for sure until I install but at first glance - It should work.
Being that your in S.Cal., go to a performance, speed shop that deals/services exotic imports or Porsches. Or visit a non-franchised muffler shop. I say non-franchise because I have had the best luck fabricating exhaust work with the average joe shop - who wants your business. Midas/Meineke frown (at least in Phoenix) on performance fabrication. Too much time involved with little monetary returns. They want the most volume each given month. Too much time wasted on fabrication means no return.
Remember This - Exhaust systems can be modified very easily. Switching location of mufflers and exhaust tips is a preference to the owner. Everything within reason and moderation -
To recap -
Remove your secondary muffler and install straight pipes.
Install a performance muffler in lue of the bathtub.
Fabrication and modification of location is owner preferenced.
Within reason and not to extreme.
Hope this helps and Good Luck getting it dialed in.
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
09-12-2002, 07:24 PM
#5
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Drewster and Jim,
There are several styles of Supertrapp automotive mufflers, a LOT of them are used by the hotrod crowd. Can't say what kinda performance changes will happen though.... Good thing they are a tuneable muffler! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Jim, try to see what a Supershop, if they are still around, might have to tell you.... There was a Supershop in Van Nuys..... 20 years ago....
There are several styles of Supertrapp automotive mufflers, a LOT of them are used by the hotrod crowd. Can't say what kinda performance changes will happen though.... Good thing they are a tuneable muffler! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Jim, try to see what a Supershop, if they are still around, might have to tell you.... There was a Supershop in Van Nuys..... 20 years ago....
09-13-2002, 02:14 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Brett that's good to know about ST for automotive uses. But is there a ST specifically made for Porsches or High Performance cars in general?. I still favor open ended pipes. From past experience and the cost factor considered - the power gain was dissappointing.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
09-13-2002, 04:21 PM
#7
I omitted the middle muffler (resonator) and replaced the tub with a stainless steel Magneflow.
It looks good and sounds great. A great BWAAAH factor. I think the muffler was $150 and install was $50-$75.
Take a look: Not the best picture....
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Indoor-rear.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Indoor-rear.jpg</a>
It may not be a huge performance gain, but the weight reduction alone must be worth something. At least that is what I tell myself. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Scott
It looks good and sounds great. A great BWAAAH factor. I think the muffler was $150 and install was $50-$75.
Take a look: Not the best picture....
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Indoor-rear.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Indoor-rear.jpg</a>
It may not be a huge performance gain, but the weight reduction alone must be worth something. At least that is what I tell myself. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Scott
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09-14-2002, 11:54 AM
#8
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Drewster,
I can't answer your question, as I never have pursued that avenue, I'm choosing to keep the stock system. Yes I've heard several cars with modified systems, and standing around listening to them at idle and running away, they ABSOLUTELY sound GREAT!!!!
Then, at SitO this year, I had the opportunity to ride with Jay in his wonderful sounding car, for about an hour each way, to get back to John, and help fix his car. <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
I found out something.
Because of my youthful pursuits, and now the shop I work in, my hearing has become acutely sensitive, to the point I must wear ear protection all day long in the shop, or at any type of competition event, I also suspect I am loosing my hearing....
So for me, anyway, quiet = comfort, for long drives.
I wonder what the situation will be, once I get back into the 356, those ARE noisy cars! But SO much fun to drive! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
I can't answer your question, as I never have pursued that avenue, I'm choosing to keep the stock system. Yes I've heard several cars with modified systems, and standing around listening to them at idle and running away, they ABSOLUTELY sound GREAT!!!!
Then, at SitO this year, I had the opportunity to ride with Jay in his wonderful sounding car, for about an hour each way, to get back to John, and help fix his car. <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
I found out something.
Because of my youthful pursuits, and now the shop I work in, my hearing has become acutely sensitive, to the point I must wear ear protection all day long in the shop, or at any type of competition event, I also suspect I am loosing my hearing....
So for me, anyway, quiet = comfort, for long drives.
I wonder what the situation will be, once I get back into the 356, those ARE noisy cars! But SO much fun to drive! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
09-14-2002, 03:26 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
I have been in touch with the power broker regarding a system for my beloved Shark - Here is what he had to say.
Hi Andrew,
It has been a very busy week--sorry for my delayed response. Do you know Joe Ferguson in Portland (jferguson@kink.fm)? He has an '83 Euro with MSDS headers and I made a modified Avenger II system for him earlier this year. I can do the same thing for your car. You would have to make a couple of measurements for me though to determine whether any modifications to Joe's design would be necessary.
As it happens, Joe just dynoed his car last week. I'll attach the chart. Unfortunately he has no stock baseline for comparison. Also his engine was running very rich at higher speeds, so he may have suffered a 20 hp power loss.
There are photos and dyno charts on my website (www.ThePowerBroker.net) If you need anything else, just ask.
I'm surprised that your pipes exit to the rear. Is that stock for your car? If so, I'd stay with that arrangement. For a car as powerful as the Euro, you should consider a 3.5" diameter tailpipe. This requires two mufflers and means additional cost. Joe opted for 3" and obtained good results.
I happily make systems without cats!
The setup I said was so cheap is a cat back system and not at all like the one we are discussing now. This is essentially an Avenger II system with a modified merge collector. The cost for a 3" system in aluminized steel is $625 and $1125 for stainless. For a 3.5" system with two Magnaflow mufflers the cost is $800 in aluminized steel and $1400 in stainless.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Tom Cloutier
The Power Broker
510-849-9778
510-540-8338 (FAX)
<a href="http://www.ThePowerBroker.net" target="_blank">www.ThePowerBroker.net</a>
Any information is good information - If you would like to view the chart, shoot me an email a a_waltenburg@msn.com
D67
Hi Andrew,
It has been a very busy week--sorry for my delayed response. Do you know Joe Ferguson in Portland (jferguson@kink.fm)? He has an '83 Euro with MSDS headers and I made a modified Avenger II system for him earlier this year. I can do the same thing for your car. You would have to make a couple of measurements for me though to determine whether any modifications to Joe's design would be necessary.
As it happens, Joe just dynoed his car last week. I'll attach the chart. Unfortunately he has no stock baseline for comparison. Also his engine was running very rich at higher speeds, so he may have suffered a 20 hp power loss.
There are photos and dyno charts on my website (www.ThePowerBroker.net) If you need anything else, just ask.
I'm surprised that your pipes exit to the rear. Is that stock for your car? If so, I'd stay with that arrangement. For a car as powerful as the Euro, you should consider a 3.5" diameter tailpipe. This requires two mufflers and means additional cost. Joe opted for 3" and obtained good results.
I happily make systems without cats!
The setup I said was so cheap is a cat back system and not at all like the one we are discussing now. This is essentially an Avenger II system with a modified merge collector. The cost for a 3" system in aluminized steel is $625 and $1125 for stainless. For a 3.5" system with two Magnaflow mufflers the cost is $800 in aluminized steel and $1400 in stainless.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Tom Cloutier
The Power Broker
510-849-9778
510-540-8338 (FAX)
<a href="http://www.ThePowerBroker.net" target="_blank">www.ThePowerBroker.net</a>
Any information is good information - If you would like to view the chart, shoot me an email a a_waltenburg@msn.com
D67
