Louie928

Different amount at different RPMs. It's not advance X degrees throughout.

John Speake

I found this was a problem when I tuned my EZF on the road. A short stop to check data and adjust mapping resulted in a rapid climb of intake air temp, even with the engine off. This is with moderate ambient air temps of about 17deg C outside the car.

It took quite a distance of driving after that to bring it down below the 50degC
(125degF) point at which the igntion is retarded by those 3 deg.

Insulated inlet pipes seem like a good idea..... I must look up Louie's data on that topic.

Louie928

John,
During the tuning process, it's best to try and keep all compensations and other variables to a minimum. For the IAT, we should have set that to zero in the IAT map. Also the retard for high coolant temp should have been set to zero just to be sure. It had been a while since I had done any Sharktuning and just forgot to do those things before starting. Some of the compensations are in the LH which makes those comps hard to get at when tuning the EZ. After tuning is over, then go back and put the high temp compensations back in. I also have a box with a couple of variable resistors inside connected to flying leads with alligator clips. I connect those to the temperature sensor plugs leading back to the ECU. Set the pots to a value of about the same resistance as engine operating temp sensors for coolant and the intake air temp. That keeps the inputs to both the LH and EZ constant while tuning. Sure, the actual intake air temp and coolant temp will vary a little, but those changes won't affect the engine power as much as throwing in "safety" compensations generated in the ECU. We were able to keep both the intake air temp and coolant temp constant enough with fans blowing air to not get into the ECU compensation range. One odd thing we noticed was that when doing runs in groups of three to get an average, often the 2nd run of the group would be significantly higher by about 5hp. We never could figure out why.

I doubt that insulating the air ducts would do much to keep the IAT down while idling. The hot air temp comes from the heat of the radiator and is present right at the air inlets. The heat comes up from the front of the radiator and it's just there when the car is stopped or going slowly. The hot air then goes through the intake system and heat soaks everything. It takes a while after moving above about 30 mph to cool it down again. There really should be an air separator of some sort between the radiator top and the air inlets to keep the hot air from the radiator from getting into the air duct inlets. The separator should project forward and angle downward to pick up air right at the top part of the air inlet at the grille opening.

John Speake

Hi Louie,
Yes, I should have thought of setting the IAT maps to all zeros !

The EZF water temp warmup map only extends to 20degC collant temp. so that shouldn't be a problem.

The LH2.2 coolant temp maps do go up to 120degC, and are of course fully editable with the ST.

Good observation on intake ducting, I guess it would have to be extended well forward, to be infront of the aircon heat exchanger.

Louie928

Yes, the intake air "splitter" would need to go all the way forward. I did make one for my GT years ago, but it only extended about 4" in front of the A/C condenser and wasn't very effective. I didn't experiment further. At 60 mph, the air temp in the air box was about 3 deg F above ambient after about 5 or 10 minutes of cruising. I figured the splitter wouldn't help me much overall for my small amount of traffic driving and relatively cool climate.

PorKen

Speaking of splitters...I think most of the air is trying to go through one side of the throttle plate at high airspeeds, because it can't make the turn. I was thinking of a splitter just before the throttle body, starting halfway through the J-bend, and ending right under the throttle plate axle. The throttle would rotate and rest against the splitter when full open. I made a sample from cardboard while I had the intake off, but I didn't have time to make a real one. The J gets progressively smaller after the MAF, so I'm hoping I can slide a metal splitter in there later, without removing the intake.

I'm happily surprised myself, considering all the stock parts that are still on there, including the fan. It's also quiet, nearly factory quiet, which was nice on the dyno, but also very nice on the street. Maybe the best thing, Honey Bunny doesn't freak out when I accelerate, so I can push it harder with her in the car.

PorKen

The KnockLite arrived this morning, and the max chip should come later today.

The unit is bigger than I thought (76 x 22mm), and has a big fat LED. I'll probably mount it in the pod for now. Later on, I've been thinking that if I could find some fiber optic cable, I would mount the KL under the pod, and string the fiber from there to the blank light in the pod (upper left, 85-88).

The (3 meters long) wires are unterminated, except for the 5V output (click the pic for the instruction sheet).

There is a flat milled on the bottom side for a small strip of Velcro (included), and there are also two 4mm holes for solid mounting.

F451

Very impressive Ken and Louie!

Gee, I wonder if I can buy my '85 back from the guy I sold it to. :^(

PorKen

Besides the mixture tweak on the top end, I would like a GT RPM limit. On the graph, I guess it doesn't matter, because the peak is right around 6000, but it is still making power at the cutoff.

It's odd how the torque and hp gets so flat. It's almost like the airflow maxes out, but it keeps chugging along at that level, but that's kind of a contradiction?

Just got the chip from the postman, just in time to drive HB around for Sat shopping.

Louie928

Ken, That's been bothering me too. It is possible there is a little too much advance right around 6000. I should have experimented with a little less advance and checked results. Not sure though. Could be a little more advance at 6000 would have produced a little more too and cured the flat spot. It was getting late and an afternoon of carbon monoxide was taking a toll I think. One condition I have to guard against is that I'm at 1350 ft elevation. If I set timing to peak power here, there is a possibility it will be too much advance at sea level. The EZ-F has no load input at WOT so nothing to compensate timing with altitude (manifold pressure) change.

PorKen

Hey, that makes sense. I wondered why I was so sleepy for two days after! It took that long to get the CO out of my system. Have to remember that during the 1hr drive home.

After scouring the internets, I came across a graph with a flat baseline, and then higher peaks after correcting a factory rich condition (2005 Mustang GT). I reckon mine gets richer after 4000, so it should respond similarly.

Lizard928

Now what octane did you perform all this tuning with?
I have a more conservative curve on mine due to the fact that I want to run 87 octane without detonation.

I did some dyno tuning on a mustang dyno awhile ago, got my AFR dialed in alot more and was around 310whp, though they didnt know how to change the correction factor and didnt know what it was. but I didnt really care as I was using it just for tuning.

H2

[QUOTE=Tom. ....seems we are starting to see what Porsche did to the Holbert car..just maximized the hidden potential by maxxing out the maps..and using 85/86 cams...
QUOTE]

Wow! Louie and Ken are still forging into new terrritory. This is very interesting.

Also, Tom said something that caught my interest about the Holbert car. It just seems to me that the Holbert car can't be totally stock in its configuration. I don't know what was done to it but it certainly appears to have sustained good performance that's uncommon. You guys may be on to something important.

It makes sense for good things to start happening to the '85-'86 years as I just sold my '85. My luck is such that if I were to go into the hat business, the next generation of kids would be born without heads. I'd better buy another '85-'86 before Shane gets them all... but I'll never have another one as good as the last one I had. I think a lot of enthusiasts can say that.

Keep on keeping on!

HH

heinrich

Louie and Ken ... very cool
Heinrich

Louie928

[QUOTE=H2;4928134]Harvey! Good to hear from you again!
I have been thinking about the '85/'86 output situation. It appears that the aftermarket eBay EZ-F chips are probably about the maximum sort of safe level. Certainly not for boosted engines, but ok for NA with good fuel. We were able to push a bit further with 92 octane fuel, and it would be even further if we had 93. However it wouldn't be at a practical level for everyday driving without some means to detect when detonation was happening, then use the low octane loop jumper. That puts the output right back to about where the eBay chips are. One situation you do run into with the S4 engines is that when you are getting near max output with timing you hit the knock sensors. What happens is that a degree of additional advance will get some measurable gain. Try another degree and get some more. Another degree will get knock sensor hit and timing retarded. What should happen is advance timing until each increment of timing advance gets more torque until the next increment doesn't get any more. Then go back to the previous step or further for some safety. I think the knock sensor system on the EZ-K is sensitive enough to prevent all the advance you need for more relatively safe power. I suppose if you attenuated the knock sensor signal so it wasn't as sensitive, the EZ-K may allow more advance, or go into the knock sense fail mode and keep timing retarded. I don't know. It "might" be that the Holbert car has a slightly different knock sense system which allows for a more optimum advance curve. I have that opinion because you can get significant more torque from additional advance on an S4 below 3500 RPM, but you can't advance much, sometimes none, at the top end because you run into knock sensor retard. I think the EZ-K knock sensor system isn't active below about 3500 RPM. John Speake would know for sure. On an S4 it's difficult to get more top end with timing. You usually can get more by leaning the mixture to around 13.5, but that's about all there is. The S3 responds nicely at the top end, and everywhere else, to more ignition advance since there is no early (IMHO) knock sense retard.