need a lawyer in a case against a mechanic
10-17-2002, 03:33 PM
#16
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Tarek,
I'm not a lawyer but I've been around them most of my life. My advice is; if at all possible, avoid getting one (a lawyer) as good ones are hard to find. My .02c is very similar to Dr. Bobs. In many states, you can only recover actual damages (I don't beleive NY awards punitive damages unless gross negligence or malice can be shown..I could be wrong). And, those damages must be proven to be directly related to a cause of action that must also be proven. Harder than it sounds and your choice to leave the car with these folks as long as you did, despite your concerns about their abilty, doesn't help you. Further, even if you are succesful at proving your claims AND are awarded judgement, collecting on that judgement is yet another endeaver... but paying the lawyers bill is not negotiable (unless you can find someone to take this on contingency.... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> )... sorry about that.
Your also facing an uphill battle trying to get a judge or jury to take interest and fully grasp the potential danger of the actual timing belt error, unless they are car nuts like us. Most likly, they'll only understand that "da belt should have zigged dis way but the mechanic zagged it dat way". You and I shreik at this but the triers of fact may see it differenlty. Consider this view and ask yourself if people you know might see the folowing: 1) you own a Porsche 2) You can afford a Porsche and that huge service bill (which will shock most folks) 3) All that money and your bitching about such a little mistake this working stiff made. If you know someone that might take it this way, imagine how strangers might see it. I'm not saying its right or that it will happen, but many times it does.
Please forgive my opinion of our legal system and don't confuse that with a lack of empathy. I think you got shafted and if the world were right and holy, the mechanic responsible should face grave consequences. However, I'd hate to see you get shafted twice. I've seen these situation too many times to count.
If I were you, I'd take your emotions out of the equation. Let logic dictate and evaluate if throwing more money at this is going to bring about a resolution you'll be happy with. If your looking to recover all of your expenses to be happy, by the time you're done paying lawyer & court fees and, all the time you'll loose prepareing and waiting for trial, I'd say you'll be disappointed, and thats if you win. You'll be demoralized if you lose. Courts try to make people whole but more times than not, they deal in compromise, and that means both sides win and lose a little.
If your acting on principle, you have my respect and backing... we need more of that. But understand that many, myself included, have gone that route many times. I can tell you that it does feel good, but cheap it is not.
Your best bet in my mind, is file formal complaints with everyone you can and if you still want satisafaction beyond that, present this yourself (pro se) in small claims court and hope for the best.
I'm not a lawyer but I've been around them most of my life. My advice is; if at all possible, avoid getting one (a lawyer) as good ones are hard to find. My .02c is very similar to Dr. Bobs. In many states, you can only recover actual damages (I don't beleive NY awards punitive damages unless gross negligence or malice can be shown..I could be wrong). And, those damages must be proven to be directly related to a cause of action that must also be proven. Harder than it sounds and your choice to leave the car with these folks as long as you did, despite your concerns about their abilty, doesn't help you. Further, even if you are succesful at proving your claims AND are awarded judgement, collecting on that judgement is yet another endeaver... but paying the lawyers bill is not negotiable (unless you can find someone to take this on contingency.... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> )... sorry about that.
Your also facing an uphill battle trying to get a judge or jury to take interest and fully grasp the potential danger of the actual timing belt error, unless they are car nuts like us. Most likly, they'll only understand that "da belt should have zigged dis way but the mechanic zagged it dat way". You and I shreik at this but the triers of fact may see it differenlty. Consider this view and ask yourself if people you know might see the folowing: 1) you own a Porsche 2) You can afford a Porsche and that huge service bill (which will shock most folks) 3) All that money and your bitching about such a little mistake this working stiff made. If you know someone that might take it this way, imagine how strangers might see it. I'm not saying its right or that it will happen, but many times it does.
Please forgive my opinion of our legal system and don't confuse that with a lack of empathy. I think you got shafted and if the world were right and holy, the mechanic responsible should face grave consequences. However, I'd hate to see you get shafted twice. I've seen these situation too many times to count.
If I were you, I'd take your emotions out of the equation. Let logic dictate and evaluate if throwing more money at this is going to bring about a resolution you'll be happy with. If your looking to recover all of your expenses to be happy, by the time you're done paying lawyer & court fees and, all the time you'll loose prepareing and waiting for trial, I'd say you'll be disappointed, and thats if you win. You'll be demoralized if you lose. Courts try to make people whole but more times than not, they deal in compromise, and that means both sides win and lose a little.
If your acting on principle, you have my respect and backing... we need more of that. But understand that many, myself included, have gone that route many times. I can tell you that it does feel good, but cheap it is not.
Your best bet in my mind, is file formal complaints with everyone you can and if you still want satisafaction beyond that, present this yourself (pro se) in small claims court and hope for the best.
10-17-2002, 05:53 PM
#17
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Eric,
might want to check w DR to see if he has any data on 'typical' before and afters as well as the Frenzy discount. I think the gain I got is the low end of the range Dave quotes on the 928gt.com site...probably makes sense given where I started. Even so, it's a noticable difference. I think Tom F has a set in his '88 so if you live relatively close, you could just do a brain swap and see how it feels before going the dyno route. The other alternative is to go ahead and get them, try them out, and return them if you don't like them. The only "negative" I've seen so far is that the idle went up to just under 1000 rpm w the chips. Since we did the whole thing in a matter of 1/2 hr, I know it's the chips and not the car. In fact, Earl had tried a set a year or so ago and seen the same result...don't know if Tom has seen it as well. I've called Autothority and offered to bring my car down as a test car so they could do the re-map and fix the idle..waiting for them to call back but I'm not optimistic. I'm happy enough w the chips that I'll keep them even w the higher idle...not that big a deal to me though DR said it might make more diff to someone w an auto.
Jim
might want to check w DR to see if he has any data on 'typical' before and afters as well as the Frenzy discount. I think the gain I got is the low end of the range Dave quotes on the 928gt.com site...probably makes sense given where I started. Even so, it's a noticable difference. I think Tom F has a set in his '88 so if you live relatively close, you could just do a brain swap and see how it feels before going the dyno route. The other alternative is to go ahead and get them, try them out, and return them if you don't like them. The only "negative" I've seen so far is that the idle went up to just under 1000 rpm w the chips. Since we did the whole thing in a matter of 1/2 hr, I know it's the chips and not the car. In fact, Earl had tried a set a year or so ago and seen the same result...don't know if Tom has seen it as well. I've called Autothority and offered to bring my car down as a test car so they could do the re-map and fix the idle..waiting for them to call back but I'm not optimistic. I'm happy enough w the chips that I'll keep them even w the higher idle...not that big a deal to me though DR said it might make more diff to someone w an auto.
Jim
10-17-2002, 07:29 PM
#18
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Ell & Mary
Not to be snooty here but I find it helpful when I read the entire thread!
[quote] My only question to this would be, who did the timing belt work the last few times that you had it taken care of? If it was a different shop why did you change? If it was the same shop that had been working on your car, and you had a good relationship with this shop, what changed causing them to perform in such a manner? <hr></blockquote>
[quote]was stuck 400 miles away from home on the way back from SITM <hr></blockquote>
[quote] 5) He had complete disregard to the fact that I was stranded away from home and did not bother with any special arrangement to help me deal with the situation <hr></blockquote>
tdelarm
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Not to be snooty here but I find it helpful when I read the entire thread!
[quote] My only question to this would be, who did the timing belt work the last few times that you had it taken care of? If it was a different shop why did you change? If it was the same shop that had been working on your car, and you had a good relationship with this shop, what changed causing them to perform in such a manner? <hr></blockquote>
[quote]was stuck 400 miles away from home on the way back from SITM <hr></blockquote>
[quote] 5) He had complete disregard to the fact that I was stranded away from home and did not bother with any special arrangement to help me deal with the situation <hr></blockquote>
tdelarm
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10-17-2002, 09:08 PM
#19
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Just who are Ell and Mary?
One person with a split personality, or two people who each work half of the keyboard <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> ?
One person with a split personality, or two people who each work half of the keyboard <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> ?
10-17-2002, 09:45 PM
#20
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Thanks to all for providing me additional motivation to "pump my own gas and fix my own car". Of course, with help from all the great volunteers out there in Rennlist Land.
I am glad I don't live in NJ where they won't let you pump.
I am glad I don't live in NJ where they won't let you pump.
10-17-2002, 10:20 PM
#21
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tdelarm,
I am sure that you were not trying to be snooty, however the reason that I would question who has done the work in the past is because a judge would ask the same question. In one of the strings he stated that he had the timing belt done 8 or 9 times. In order to prove that the tension switch was grounded this time in the shop you have to prove that it was not grounded prior. If the same shop has performed the work in the past, you would have a hard time showing neglect. The judge would also ask why you continue to take you car back to a shop that performed poor quality work. None of this was addressed in the string prior to my question.
RandyV
To your question of who "Ell & Mary" is. I am Ell and Mary is my wife of 20 years. I own the 86 shark and she owns a 82 911SC. We both race and have had the pleasure of driving on the autobahn for 12 years.
Unlike some people that have multiple log in names, we share one and track the interesting post. With any luck we will be able to meet next year at the Sharks in the Mountain 6 event and swap stories.
Ell
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I am sure that you were not trying to be snooty, however the reason that I would question who has done the work in the past is because a judge would ask the same question. In one of the strings he stated that he had the timing belt done 8 or 9 times. In order to prove that the tension switch was grounded this time in the shop you have to prove that it was not grounded prior. If the same shop has performed the work in the past, you would have a hard time showing neglect. The judge would also ask why you continue to take you car back to a shop that performed poor quality work. None of this was addressed in the string prior to my question.
RandyV
To your question of who "Ell & Mary" is. I am Ell and Mary is my wife of 20 years. I own the 86 shark and she owns a 82 911SC. We both race and have had the pleasure of driving on the autobahn for 12 years.
Unlike some people that have multiple log in names, we share one and track the interesting post. With any luck we will be able to meet next year at the Sharks in the Mountain 6 event and swap stories.
Ell
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-17-2002, 11:49 PM
#22
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Ell,
Gotcha...You know I was just razzing ya! Just thought you might of missed that he got stuck 400 miles away from home and from the looks of it, had to depend on a new mechanic to get him back on the road.
Boy, I sure don't want to ever get stuck in that situation. At that point, I think I would have it flatbed towed home to my mechanic where I could visit sharkey occasionally and keep an eye on repairs.
On second thought…maybe I’ll just give up my present job and become a 928 mechanic…seems that’s where all the money is these days.
Tim Delarm
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Gotcha...You know I was just razzing ya! Just thought you might of missed that he got stuck 400 miles away from home and from the looks of it, had to depend on a new mechanic to get him back on the road.
Boy, I sure don't want to ever get stuck in that situation. At that point, I think I would have it flatbed towed home to my mechanic where I could visit sharkey occasionally and keep an eye on repairs.
On second thought…maybe I’ll just give up my present job and become a 928 mechanic…seems that’s where all the money is these days.
Tim Delarm
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-19-2002, 08:50 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
After reading this post Ive come to this conclusion.
1.) This guy took MAJOR advantage of Tarek.
2.) This guy knows a 928 like Ive been to Mars.
C'MON - 300 for a battery!!!!!! Please.
Tarek, I don't know what else to say except I feel for ya. If all else fails, exercise your right to freedom of speech. I would make the world aware of what you went through and one way to do so is to open a thread on Google (google.com) in one of the discussion forums available to Joe Public. I know it's not as rewarding as having Pauli and Guedo make a family visit, but word of mouth, or should I say, word of internet, may eventually put this guy in place.
BTW - If you need Pauli and Guedo, their available!
Best of Luck
1.) This guy took MAJOR advantage of Tarek.
2.) This guy knows a 928 like Ive been to Mars.
C'MON - 300 for a battery!!!!!! Please.
Tarek, I don't know what else to say except I feel for ya. If all else fails, exercise your right to freedom of speech. I would make the world aware of what you went through and one way to do so is to open a thread on Google (google.com) in one of the discussion forums available to Joe Public. I know it's not as rewarding as having Pauli and Guedo make a family visit, but word of mouth, or should I say, word of internet, may eventually put this guy in place.
BTW - If you need Pauli and Guedo, their available!
Best of Luck
10-20-2002, 04:06 AM
#25
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TAREK,
Please tell me you put the payment on your charge card and called that card company and...by all means...contact the BBB on line and fill out a complaint form...AND...list this guys name of business and save others from going this route. Dishonest people like this don't deserve to be in business to rip people off. What the hell ever happend to this world anyway???
Money...Money...Money...it's all about money and you can't even take it to the grave.
Geez!
Tim Delarm <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
Please tell me you put the payment on your charge card and called that card company and...by all means...contact the BBB on line and fill out a complaint form...AND...list this guys name of business and save others from going this route. Dishonest people like this don't deserve to be in business to rip people off. What the hell ever happend to this world anyway???
Money...Money...Money...it's all about money and you can't even take it to the grave.
Geez!
Tim Delarm <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
