The quest for horsepower has begun
02-07-2002, 01:54 PM
#46
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Aaron-
I don't know if the other engine managment system would have alleviated the problem in my car. The reason I say this is because the prior cams (due to their lift and duration) when properly dialed in would not creat enough vacuum for the engine to run properly (along with severe impact on the vacuum booster on the power brakes).
As I understand it, the wrench's at Brumho's Porsche in Jacksonville worked on the car about 2 weeks before they could finally get it to run. The cams would have been much better off in a 5 speed car.
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I don't know if the other engine managment system would have alleviated the problem in my car. The reason I say this is because the prior cams (due to their lift and duration) when properly dialed in would not creat enough vacuum for the engine to run properly (along with severe impact on the vacuum booster on the power brakes).
As I understand it, the wrench's at Brumho's Porsche in Jacksonville worked on the car about 2 weeks before they could finally get it to run. The cams would have been much better off in a 5 speed car.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
02-07-2002, 03:40 PM
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Sterling does the Motec use a cam sensor(s) to help compensate for those issues or are you referring to programing the Motec to work around those issues? I know the new DFI Gen VII has a cam sensor that when used you put in the specs of your cam into the computer and it will allow people with very big cams and injectors to get a good idle out of the car, where as with the previous DFI it would not idle at all. I have no idea if this feature or if the entire setup of a Gen VII would even work on a 928, just using it as an example since I know little about the Motecs.
02-07-2002, 04:25 PM
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Did the factory use cam sensors on all years of the 928 or did they start at one particular point?
I am unfamilar with Motec pricing, never could find much in regards to that stateside online either. Sounds like what is a steal on a Motec is the general pricing of the other offerings on the market that are not as feature enriched, but does one really need/use all those features you get with a Motec?
I am unfamilar with Motec pricing, never could find much in regards to that stateside online either. Sounds like what is a steal on a Motec is the general pricing of the other offerings on the market that are not as feature enriched, but does one really need/use all those features you get with a Motec?
02-07-2002, 10:33 PM
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What did you do to the valves (if anything) Sterling?
If you had the valves modified - what did you go to? Also, impact upon the seats (if any?)
TIA-
If you had the valves modified - what did you go to? Also, impact upon the seats (if any?)
TIA-
02-11-2002, 10:25 PM
#50
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Jay,
If your still looking for 968 valves, performance products has them, $30 I
$35 E.
Steve C
The Great White
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
If your still looking for 968 valves, performance products has them, $30 I
$35 E.
Steve C
The Great White
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
02-12-2002, 02:22 AM
#51
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Steve,
Not sure what your current plan on the intake is, but a little more info for you, as I was able to dry fit a couple of intake/head combos yesterday.
If you are going to use 4v heads, you will either have to use a 4v intake (preferably the 87+) or you will have to do some serious work to get the EuroS intake to mount and line up. (At minimum, drilling and tapping the heads). There will also be some port matching, but I'm sure you expected that.
The individual runners of the older intakes have 2 studs per runner set into the head. The 4v intake is mounted in a very different way.
HTH,
Greg
Not sure what your current plan on the intake is, but a little more info for you, as I was able to dry fit a couple of intake/head combos yesterday.
If you are going to use 4v heads, you will either have to use a 4v intake (preferably the 87+) or you will have to do some serious work to get the EuroS intake to mount and line up. (At minimum, drilling and tapping the heads). There will also be some port matching, but I'm sure you expected that.
The individual runners of the older intakes have 2 studs per runner set into the head. The 4v intake is mounted in a very different way.
HTH,
Greg
02-12-2002, 09:47 AM
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Hey Steve-
Thanks for the info. I found them locally for $38 each for the Intake. SOunds like a better deal from the place you mentioned.
FWIW- only the Intake valves are needed as the Exhaust valves are the same between the $4 and 968 (33 mm).
Thabks again.
Thanks for the info. I found them locally for $38 each for the Intake. SOunds like a better deal from the place you mentioned.
FWIW- only the Intake valves are needed as the Exhaust valves are the same between the $4 and 968 (33 mm).
Thabks again.
04-02-2002, 06:13 PM
#53
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Sterling,
Did you relocate your web page - just went to check on your progress and... nothing... IP translation problem...
Interested to see how the beast is coming along - done? (driveable at least?)
Alan
Did you relocate your web page - just went to check on your progress and... nothing... IP translation problem...
Interested to see how the beast is coming along - done? (driveable at least?)
Alan
04-03-2002, 01:34 PM
#54
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I have been following this line for quite some time and have some comments.
Sterling's engine is made for boosting, not as a high output na engine (although it will be a "healthy" NA), hence the deck plate, grout and steel sleeve (another are that we have lots of exp with), oring, copper gaskets, etc. All are technologies developed by Bob Norwood n his quest for the 1000 rwhp 3l.
Our basic street 6.5 with no valve mods or headers puts out about 385 rwhp, add mid level heads go to 405, add headers and exhaust go to 435-440. These engine last forever! Some 928 race engines have to be rebuilt every 25 or so race hours, others have yet to be rebuilt! A decent built 6.5 will last for 100K with no lower/upper end work required. Remember, big engine pull BIG vacuum numbers.....
Throw in a DEVEK B1 cam, same grind as used in the KMR928 (while it ran) and get 680 -700hp. Use em in a stock 928, gain about 55 rwhp...but will not idle worth a damn!
We have done a few engines with stock lower ends with "big valve heads"...average gain is about 25 - 30 rwhp. We have not done a stock lower end with full p/p heads.
We have US based pistons running in two engine right now, one is far away and one on this list. We had one failure, the guy in Kansas, who washed down the cylinders with fuel and trashed a piston or two. The later two were built by a DEVEK engine builder, using our piston coating technology and different piston materials. All in search of a reliable. low cost engine options. Research takes a long time to make sure that it works for a long time! We generally build and test for 60K miles , putt it apart and see what it looks like inside before we market and sell performance engine products. Sometimes we share this testing with a customer with a discounts for the effort, just like we did with the Kansas effort. Note to self,.....
We have a block which will use the nikasil coating process...will let you know when it gets built. There are potential issues with nikasil coating...see BMW v8 technology.
Valves- 968 valves? They are actually 928 part numbers and were intended for the GTS, but the result was a bit too much hp and would directly comptete with the then current "leader of the pack" turbo. And the 968 heads are VERY different.
Hey, we have been selling 944 2 valve heads and cam towers forever and frequently offer deals on the list for them! I have reposted the offer. No secret.
Soon there will be 7, maybe 10 more of our strokers out there..with one very special Na street engine with expectation of 550 rqhp on pump gas using our DTA sequential fuel and ign control system. Louis Ott is our 928 dealer for DTA...contact him or me for more info.
Good luck with your projects and we all look forward to seeing them perform on the dyno and at the track...maybe for DEVEK day?
Maybe we should rename the topic "the quest for more horsepower continues..."
Regards,
Marc
Sterling's engine is made for boosting, not as a high output na engine (although it will be a "healthy" NA), hence the deck plate, grout and steel sleeve (another are that we have lots of exp with), oring, copper gaskets, etc. All are technologies developed by Bob Norwood n his quest for the 1000 rwhp 3l.
Our basic street 6.5 with no valve mods or headers puts out about 385 rwhp, add mid level heads go to 405, add headers and exhaust go to 435-440. These engine last forever! Some 928 race engines have to be rebuilt every 25 or so race hours, others have yet to be rebuilt! A decent built 6.5 will last for 100K with no lower/upper end work required. Remember, big engine pull BIG vacuum numbers.....
Throw in a DEVEK B1 cam, same grind as used in the KMR928 (while it ran) and get 680 -700hp. Use em in a stock 928, gain about 55 rwhp...but will not idle worth a damn!
We have done a few engines with stock lower ends with "big valve heads"...average gain is about 25 - 30 rwhp. We have not done a stock lower end with full p/p heads.
We have US based pistons running in two engine right now, one is far away and one on this list. We had one failure, the guy in Kansas, who washed down the cylinders with fuel and trashed a piston or two. The later two were built by a DEVEK engine builder, using our piston coating technology and different piston materials. All in search of a reliable. low cost engine options. Research takes a long time to make sure that it works for a long time! We generally build and test for 60K miles , putt it apart and see what it looks like inside before we market and sell performance engine products. Sometimes we share this testing with a customer with a discounts for the effort, just like we did with the Kansas effort. Note to self,.....
We have a block which will use the nikasil coating process...will let you know when it gets built. There are potential issues with nikasil coating...see BMW v8 technology.
Valves- 968 valves? They are actually 928 part numbers and were intended for the GTS, but the result was a bit too much hp and would directly comptete with the then current "leader of the pack" turbo. And the 968 heads are VERY different.
Hey, we have been selling 944 2 valve heads and cam towers forever and frequently offer deals on the list for them! I have reposted the offer. No secret.
Soon there will be 7, maybe 10 more of our strokers out there..with one very special Na street engine with expectation of 550 rqhp on pump gas using our DTA sequential fuel and ign control system. Louis Ott is our 928 dealer for DTA...contact him or me for more info.
Good luck with your projects and we all look forward to seeing them perform on the dyno and at the track...maybe for DEVEK day?
Maybe we should rename the topic "the quest for more horsepower continues..."
Regards,
Marc
05-01-2005, 12:17 PM
#56
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It's not exactly concrete per se. Kinda close . The 'Hard Blok' brand is cement based. There is also a Moroso product which I think is a bit different in chemical makeup, but I'd have to check. I do recall reading about another brand that is a metallized epoxy of some sort - like a quasi JB Weld. Just can't remember what it is.
The epoxy block filler you are trying to remember is "BLOCKPOXY" It has the benefit of pouring like Karo syrup - much less viscous and able to flow between cylinder pairs and other small passageways much, much easier than the grout or cement types can. Still, the epoxy block fillers are only good up to about 300 degrees - so they are only suitable for lower cylinder wall filling.
The temperature outside the cylinder wall at the bottom and middle is about 250 deg F in most motors. At the top, though, a water-jacket side of the top of the cylinder wall will be closer to 550 degrees.
The HardBlock product from Tennessee is cement-based, with pulverized iron in it. It can be added to a block after it has been bored as it will not move the cylinder walls as it cures like the grout-based and the epoxy fillers do. It can withstand 1200 degrees, and has a compressive strength of 8000 psi.
05-01-2005, 07:26 PM
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I can say the Nikasil plating is a good option. I have one engine with 10,000 miles on the Nikasil and another with 1000 or so miles on it....no problems whatsoever. Both engines are still very strong....one is soon to be stronger...new cams, manifolds and turbos are in the works!
Personally, I would not cement grout the block or do deck plates becasue if you keep it conservative in terms of boost pressure, there is simply no need. Look how long a 944 turbo running 14 psig of boost lasts...a long time. I would not run 20+ psig on these blocks, 14 psig give or take will yield great results...of course assuming you are running turbos
I picked the Nikasil because it let me run whatever piston I wanted, was more cost effective than sleeving and finally it has fine heat transfer. I would think the thermal stresses and cylinder pressures on 10 psig of turbocharged boost surpass 6+ liters of NA engine. I have had zero head gasket problems with either engine. Just standard 928 gaskets, no o-rings or special things.
My brother just bought the last Callaway 928 and it has a sleeved block...we just can't figure out why they did this?
Personally, I would not cement grout the block or do deck plates becasue if you keep it conservative in terms of boost pressure, there is simply no need. Look how long a 944 turbo running 14 psig of boost lasts...a long time. I would not run 20+ psig on these blocks, 14 psig give or take will yield great results...of course assuming you are running turbos
I picked the Nikasil because it let me run whatever piston I wanted, was more cost effective than sleeving and finally it has fine heat transfer. I would think the thermal stresses and cylinder pressures on 10 psig of turbocharged boost surpass 6+ liters of NA engine. I have had zero head gasket problems with either engine. Just standard 928 gaskets, no o-rings or special things.
My brother just bought the last Callaway 928 and it has a sleeved block...we just can't figure out why they did this?
05-01-2005, 07:56 PM
#58
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Well I think Don Hanson has found an excellent recipe that has netted him some serious HP for a NA motor. Might be tempted down that road myself with my spare engine. All it takes is time and money.
05-02-2005, 09:12 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by John
My brother just bought the last Callaway 928 and it has a sleeved block...we just can't figure out why they did this?
The previous owner told me on numerous occassions (..while trying to get me to buy the car) that he just recently rebuilt the engine. However, I cannot recall whether or not he mentioned sleeving was part of the process. He may have, but I started tuning him out a long time ago due to inflated, wildly unrealistic claims. The bottom line, it was hard to believe anything he had to say.
How does the engine look; has it been recently rebuilt? Can you tell whether or not ARP studs were used?
05-02-2005, 01:21 PM
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No, no...it was sleeved by Callaway because I know they did the 944s this way. My brother said the engine does appear to have been gone through totally, it looks like a clean rebuild. The stupid part is having the sleeved block, then rebuilding and leaving the junk cast pistons in it. Not a good move. The rings are total seal as the guy explained it. It has bugs and he is working these things out. I guess the motor was built by a reputable shop, but I just don't know.
Apparently the rear 1/4s were cut out, stretched and tack welded back in place and then glassed over. Really stupid move. He needs a good clean chassis for this engine.
Yes, the previous owner claimed 14 psig and the car arrived and wasn't making but maybe 7-8 lbs. It would have never left Callaway over 10 lbs of boost. The gates are supposed to be screw adjustable but we are not sure since the car is not on the road yet.
Apparently the rear 1/4s were cut out, stretched and tack welded back in place and then glassed over. Really stupid move. He needs a good clean chassis for this engine.
Yes, the previous owner claimed 14 psig and the car arrived and wasn't making but maybe 7-8 lbs. It would have never left Callaway over 10 lbs of boost. The gates are supposed to be screw adjustable but we are not sure since the car is not on the road yet.